Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?

Loud Motorcycle PipesTHE DEBATE GOES ON. I’ve never struggled so much to write a motorcycle article as I have with this one. A reader challenged me to enter the discussion about loud pipes earlier this year. At the time, I thought it an easy endeavor because I had my own years of experience and opinion on the matter.

However, I made a mistake: I decided to research the matter. And in the process, my opinion has been somewhat modified.

The Search for Evidence: “Loud Pipes Save Lives”

As you, too, might be inclined to do when seeking more info on a subject, I did an Internet search for “Loud Pipes Save Lives” and read through numerous articles at the top of the search results and much lower in the results.

What I came away with was less certainty on the subject than when I started. And more so than any time before, I recognized that truth can be illusive.

Now I don’t know if my personal experience is typical, or atypical, but I did ride for years with high-performance (and loud), exhaust pipes – when I was much younger. To this day, I don’t know how my ears survived. (Well, the fact is, now that I’m considerably more mature, the question of how well they survived is just as murky as my research on the matter of whether loud pipes save lives, or not.)

Although it appears my hearing is not as good as it used to be, how much of that is due to loud pipes or lots and lots of very loud concerts and very loud music blasting through headphones is difficult to discern. I’m sure it’s safe to say that neither supported long-term optimal hearing. (I only started wearing ear plugs while riding several years ago).

Loud Pipes Are Impractical For Long-Distance Touring

My first coast-to-coast motorcycle trip was on a motorbike with a high-performance, non-stock exhaust system that did not endear the neighbors to my notion of a spirited form of transportation. Although I’ve ridden coast-to-coast across North America a number of times since, I recall that first trip as a highlight of my life. And although I could discourse about the virtues of that summer adventure, in the early 80’s, for hours on end, one thing that I realized without any advice, feedback or suggestions from anyone else, was that loud pipes made for uncomfortable long-distance riding (and also that I would be switching from chain-drive to shaft-drive motorbikes for touring).

Personally, I don’t like loud pipes. As much as I love each and every kind of motorcycle, the only ones that diminish my enthusiasm for the brotherhood are those that disrupt the neighborhood harmony by announcing their every breath coming and going.

So, here I am, a long-distance, mature rider, with hundreds of thousands of miles of motorbike experience, who “used” to ride with loud pipes, and who has not liked them for years, and who is philosophically opposed to them due to their inherent and ongoing damage to the motorsport in the way they impinge on the lives of those non-riders whom are adversely effected by the noise pollution of their very existence. Hence, wouldn’t you think I’d be a vociferous opponent of the same?

Which brings me to the point of the first paragraph. I was already aware of the lack of real evidence that supports the concept that “loud pipes save lives.”

But lo and behold, my research did find anecdotal reports that extol the virtues of loud pipes.

The Truth, or Not?

So, what is the truth?

Are those riders who state that loud pipes “have” saved their lives just plain wrong?

What my research did “not” do is change my perspective on whether I, personally, will integrate loud pipes back into my riding: I won’t. In fact, in the future, I will likely include an electric motorcycle (which are practically silent), within a stable of riding choices.

However, what has resulted from my research regarding loud pipes is a softening of my perspective. Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals.

Even so, such does not address the rights of others to “not” be subjected to the noise of loud motorcycle exhaust systems.

In conclusion, although I am not an advocate for loud pipes, and even though I disagree with the use of the most obnoxious ones, and even though there is no hard evidence in support of their use as a safety catalyst, and even though the loudest pipes do damage to the overall public perception of motorcycling, I respect that there have been “some” quantity of riders (however large or small), who are still riding, purportedly as a result of loud pipes. Which has caused me to re-evaluate their application.

Better yet, what do YOU consider is the truth? Do loud motorcycle pipes save lives?

745 thoughts on “Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?

  • Sorry Rick, you have trouble receiving messages with facts that contradict your belief system. Each post you make just confirms what I have already said – keep it up! 🙂

    doug s., feet firmly planted on terra firma

  • Sorry doug, having trouble receiving your messages here on earth you know Alpha Centauri is a long way off, you should boost your signal a bit…

  • rick, you and dan crack me up. talk about ignoring/changing the meaning of words that don’t support an argument, having no class or respect, alternate reality, etc. LOL! you guys have pot-kettle-black syndrome about as bad as i have ever seen it!

    holly hippodaze,

    doug s.

  • You know Doug, some people are worth talking to and some people aren’t worth the air they breath…

    I can give you two reasons why you should apologize to Vern, class and respect. i suspect you don’t really understand either of those and if your father never gave you a boot to the backside to teach you what they were, well then I doubt I can do it across the Internet, so I won’t try.

    As far as your actual response, it must be great living in an alternate reality where you can change the meaning of words and the facts when they don’t support your argument…

    I have no problem debating someone that has a point of reference in the reality in which we all live in, but unfortunately for you, you exist in alternative reality so it isn’t worth the energy…

    I will end it with Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year…

  • LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    LOL…Doug, although you constantly attack me…which is fine with me, but I WOULD appreciate something logical and fact based occasionally, and not just your usual emotional diatribes, I bet you secretly thank me for posting again on this thread, bringing it alive once again, even if it is not always…okay, not even very often, lol…JUST about motorcycle exhaust pipes, and giving your…apparently…. pathetically mundane life some meaning, don’t you?…admit it!  lol

    While I certainly expect some kind of drooling, incendiary response from you on every post I make, still, I would think that at least ONCE you’d reply with something that makes some kind of logical sense…yet it just never seems to happen with you.

    While I have been attacked as “racist” since I, as a young, impressionable boy, found a campaign button lying on the sidewalk, many decades ago, and, because I thought the button was clever, I pinned it on my shirt…and thus began the immediate attacks from the liberal teachers at my school…what did that campaign button say?…a simple message….

    “Au H2O”….

    I didn’t even know who this person was, but, by the mean spirited, hostile attacks from my decidedly liberal, and very foolish teachers, I decided to read up and pay attention….thus began my political awareness into the lies, deceit, and even hatred that the political left has deep in their hearts, and why they constantly react so negatively to ANYTHING, or ANYONE, who does not go alone with their fairy tale image of how the world “should work”, if ONLY they can FORCE the taxpayers to just SPEND MORE MONEY!

    You are one of those people, Doug.

    Your remarks here:….

    “thanks again, for proving your low-life ignorant racist attitudes. no one here is saying that all non-whites are god’s angels. it doesn’t mean you are not an ignorant racist. there are people who are intelligent and there are those less so. there are people who are honorable and there are those who are less so. race doesn’t quantify who these folks are or are not. but folks who categorically denigrate others based solely on ethnicity are ignorant scum. like you, dan.”

    ….show just one of the types of irrational responses that I speak of. Now, I certainly don’t expect ANY liberal to LIKE my views…they never have….because ALL liberals are dishonest.  However, each and every one of the liberals I have argued or “debated” with…and there are probably “hundreds” in my life time…would not, in fact COULD NOT, honestly deny that what I said was true…based on actual FACTS and REAL statistics and NUMBERS…never, ever…NOT ONCE!….and YOU, with spittle flying, and blood pressure skyrocketing, just add to that long line of dishonest, liberal hypocrites that simply will not admit the truth, and face the facts…yet always try to guide the “discussion” AWAY from reality with bitter, twisted, personal attacks…it’s a standard technique of liberal, anti-American, lying democrats.

    Now, as I’ve said before, I am a racist…so are you and every other human on this planet…it’s a fact, PROVEN by scientific, and anthropological study, after study, decade after decade…PERIOD!

    However, your faulty charge that I am “ignorant” simple “holds no water”.  Explain to me just “how” I am ignorant?…I probably have more education, and degrees, than you do…for those foolish enough to think those types of things matter….as liberals all seem to.

    You say, “no one here is saying that all non-whites are god’s angels. it doesn’t mean you are not an ignorant racist”….

    I think THAT is what is termed a “non sequitur”….”I” never said any non-whites WEREN’T angels…or that any WHITES weren’t angels…so, what is the connections your are so lamely trying to make with that statement?

    I never said that race “quantifies” those who are “intelligent”, or NOT “intelligent”…did I?…No, I did not.

    I never said that race “quantifies” those who are “honorable” or NOT “honorable”…did I?…No, I did not.

    What I DID do…and will continue to do…is point out the overwhelming, TRUTHFUL statistic that neee-groes…as a group…are extremely violent, and have an extremely high, and disproportionate percentage of violence against other races, especially WHITE people, and that our prisons, and jails, have an overwhelming number of neee-gro inmates…not only on actual NUMBERS, but on the PERCENTAGE of them, based on the SMALL…approximately 6 percent  MALE neee-groes…  of America’s overall population.

    Now, those numbers are true…and ALL the government, FBI, and all other law enforcement statistics verify them….

    I realize that many people…good, conservative people, as well as wild eyed, dishonest, spittle spewing liberal people, like YOU…get a bit squeamish when these facts are brought out into the open for discussion…but, I don’t care whether YOU, or anyone else gets “squeamish” about them…because they are TRUE…..”tough titty, said the kitty, but the milk tastes fine”, as the old saying goes!  LOL…(Sometimes I even crack myself up!  lol)

    Am I “categorically denigrating others”…as YOU claim… by stating the well documented, TRUE statistics of these violent people?…If something is PROVEN to be TRUE…is it “racist”?…If YOU think so, please enlighten  me as to just HOW is that possible?…after all, facts ARE facts…for ALL of us.

    Since yesterday morning, when I was last here, there has been many posts…with, of course, YOU in the center of all of them….

    Your posts are mean spirited to everyone, and mostly dishonest…and, as we used to say in the Air Force…”full of targets of opportunity”…

    But, you post so much “scat”, as Jane Goodall would refer to you leavings, that to respond to even most of them requires far too much space than they are worth, and while I realize that, while Saul Alinsky, obama’s terrorist buddy Bill Ayers, and his murdering wife Bernadine Dohrn, and even obama’s discredited communist “Green Czar”, Van Jones,  would smile with anarchic approval, I think the people on this thread can see that almost all of what you say is simply bitter, twisted, emotional drivel, full of lies and only half truths at best… so it doesn’t matter.

    As far as you thinking I’m “scum”…just remember, scum, like cream…always rises to the top! lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

  • wow, thanks again, rick, for continuing to say the guy i don’t really care for all that much, is my hero, messiah, etc. were you born stupid, or did you study? or are you from that pathetic school that believes if you repeat a lie frequently enough and long enough, it becomes true? ;~)

    i really do not believe that, in all cases, how well one does or does not do in school is indicative of intelligence. al einstein had is difficulties in school, but i wouldn’t call him dumber than a bag of rocks. in fact, i know a lot of folks that did well in school, that were average intelligence, and a lot of folks who didn’t let school get in the way of their education.

    why do i owe vern an apology? because i think he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer? becausehe babbles talking points from rush limbaugh and faux news?

    doug s.

  • wow, vern. you call yourself a conservative? lol! you post garbage and lies just as freely as your other “conservative” friends.

    from snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/executiveorders.asp):
    “…The item reproduced above purports that President Obama has so far issued a whopping 923 executive orders (compared to about thirty each for previous presidents) and offers supposedly alarming provisions of some of those orders. However, the entirety of this item is erroneous.

    First of all, the number of executive orders issued by President Obama is grossly exaggerated here. By our count, as of 28 September 2012 the total number of executive orders issued by President Obama was 138, not 923. Moreover, compared to President Obama’s predecessors in the White House, this is not an unusually large number of orders for a modern president: President George W. Bush issued 291 executive orders during his eight years in office, while President Bill Clinton issued 364 such orders over the same span of time.

    The listing of numbers of executive orders issued during the terms of modern presidents included in one of the examples above also bears no resemblance to reality. This chart compares the claimed number of orders issued by each president on the list with the actual number issued, as documented by The American Presidency Project:

    Name Number claimed: Actual number:
    Theodore Roosevelt 3 1,081
    Franklin Roosevelt 11 3,522
    Harry Truman 5 907
    Dwight Eisenhower 2 484
    John Kennedy 4 214
    Lyndon Johnson 4 325
    Richard Nixon 1 346
    Gerald Ford 3 169
    Jimmy Carter 3 320
    Ronald Reagan 5 381
    George H.W. Bush 3 166
    Bill Clinton 15 364
    George W. Bush 62 291
    Barack Obama 923 138

    Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/executiveorders.asp#L4HdRTDBWTQjGbhT.99

    btw, my blood pressure is fine. i don’t really let ignorant garbage spewing scum ruin my day. i hope facts don’t upset *you* too much… :>)

    doug s.
    ps – if cops spent more time actually trying to keep people safe instead of trying to raise revenue for their govt’s, (taxes are bad, but catching speeders is good?), maybe folks wouldn’t complain against getting pulled over for speeding so much. ;~)

  • Okay thank you Dan for the kind comments and I have to agree with you on Vern. He is by far one of the most polite people I have ever run into online. And though I didn’t have to apologize, I most certainly should have apologized and that is why I did. Those who wait until they have to, turn out like Doug…

    Now for Doug, you keep shouting about facts, but you really never actually use any…

    First your tirade on Vern was completely unnecessary and proved that yet again Dan was not only right again about you, but actually understating your ignorance. Vern is typically the person that keeps the rest of us in check when we go off the tracks, so you beyond any shadow of doubt owe the man an apology… And it best be sincere.

    Now for Obama’s intelligence. I live in Massachusetts and as such have encountered or worked with more than one person that actually went to school with him at Harvard and or are professors at Harvard. Now just to clarify Doug, there aren’t any “conservative right wing nut teabaggers” as you like to refer to them, working or going to school at Harvard, so the comments I got were from people very far to the left…

    Their quote on Obama, “If he was a good student, do you really think he would hide his transcripts? And if he said they can’t be found, Harvard has transcripts going back hundreds of years, do you think they lost just his?”

    When pushed they continued, “he wasn’t a regular in class and when he did show up, it was rather obvious.”

    So to sum it up for you big guy, your hero and messiah is dumber than a bag of rocks…

  • I said I was done commenting to you, doug, but unfortunately I feel I have to post this one last missive. Only people who are attempting to bolster their own point of view intentionally imply their guy can be excused because everyone else did it too. You are doing that by saying “show me one president in recent history that has not “violated the constitution”, ” I heard that kind of argument daily as a cop. I pull over a speeder and he says “Everybody else was speeding too” as if that was supposed to absolve him of responsibility for his own actions. Prettly lame, doug. Obama has unconstitutionally issued far more “Executive Orders”, so as to side-step Congress, than any previous President, and, even though I don’t have specific statistics on it, it would not surprise me if he’s issued more such illegal orders than all previous Presidents combined. I’m not saying he has, I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me. Now, since this is SUPPOSED to be a post about motorcycle pipes, I will in the future refrain from commenting on politics here. Have a good life, doug. I hope your internal clock is not damaged by your blood pressure rising when you think of Republicans and conservatives. We conservatives are not going away.

  • “Okay…so, just like the lying Mau Mau, obama, you put out a dishonest lie…in this case statistics…again…then when shown their dishonesty, you start to “qualify” them….typical liberal liar…as I’ve proven before.”

    thanks, once again, for proving you cannot dispute facts w/anything other than insults and obfuscation.

    “As far as “racist”…we’ve been through THAT before too…yes…I, and ALL other humans and animals ARE racists….some admit it, some lie about it…those being lying liberals.

    It’s a fact of nature, and there is nothing wrong with that…it is the ACTION of discrimination based on race, that is the “crime”…such as the neee-groe’s “knock out game”…or the 400 PLUS incidences…last year ALONE…. of neee-grow mobs attacking, and sometimes killing lone white people…simply because the victims were white….

    THOSE are facts, you drooling, liberal moron…deny it all your want…doesn’t change the truth.”

    thanks again, for proving your low-life ignorant racist attitudes. no one here is saying that all non-whites are god’s angels. it doesn’t mean you are not an ignorant racist. there are people who are intelligent and there are those less so. there are people who are honorable and there are those who are less so. race doesn’t quantify who these folks are or are not. but folks who categorically denigrate others based solely on ethnicity are ignorant scum. like you, dan.

    doug s.

  • Okay…so, just like the lying Mau Mau, obama, you put out a dishonest lie…in this case statistics…again…then when shown their dishonesty, you start to “qualify” them….typical liberal liar…as I’ve proven before.

    As far as “racist”…we’ve been through THAT before too…yes…I, and ALL other humans and animals ARE racists….some admit it, some lie about it…those being lying liberals.

    It’s a fact of nature, and there is nothing wrong with that…it is the ACTION of discrimination based on race, that is the “crime”…such as the neee-groe’s “knock out game”…or the 400 PLUS incidences…last year ALONE…. of neee-grow mobs attacking, and sometimes killing lone white people…simply because the victims were white….

    THOSE are facts, you drooling, liberal moron…deny it all your want…doesn’t change the truth.

  • so, dan, is your calling me a maroon an ad hominem attack, or is it your opinion? ;~)

    you, btw, have never, even ONCE been able to refute a single FACT i have presented; you have ONLY obfuscated, distorted, distracted and insulted me. i, on the other hand, have given specific refutations of those whose opinions i disagree with on this forum. which is why i do believe that i am entitled to my opinions, and which is why they are not ad hominem attacks. you may be good at quoting definitions; too bad you are less good at understanding them.

    doug s.

  • LOL…as “Bugs Bunny” used to say…..”What a MA-ROON!”…

    Here’s what “Yahoo” says about “ad hominem attacks, “Doug…of the rolling eyes”…

    “The ultimate ad hominem is to simply insult the person outright:”

    “You can’t believe anything in this book because the author is an idiot!” (i.e., I disagree with everything in the book, but don’t know enough to formulate reasons why, so I’ll just insult the author).

    Yep, you betcha…it’s an “ad hominem” attack…lol

  • thanks dan, for babbling on and on and on. keep posting lies while i post facts. keep saying my facts are lies.

    ya, your examples clearly express the meaning of ‘lies, damn lies and statistics”. lol! what your usa.gov federal funding “illustration” fails to take into account is this:

    red states get 30 cents more federal spending per tax dollar than their Democratic neighbors. so, ya, the blue states got more money in total? guess what? IT’S CUZ THEY PAID MORE TAXES! “shocking isn’t it? lol!”

    “So, once again, Dan, you demonstrate how you lying republicans ALWAYS use faulty data to try to prove some wishful thinking lie…because you always edit the data to try to prove your PRECONCEIVED, dishonest conclusions…you’ve done it again…” there; FIXED! “lol!”

    and thanks for posting what i figured all along – you are a racist plain and simple. EXTREMELY simple. just like your brain. fortunately, you and yours days are numbered.

    doug s.

  • “roll eyes….” vern, show me one president in recent history that has not “violated the constitution”, “sir”, “roll eyes again”…

    “people like me”? lol! talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

    imo, about 90% of all the laws and the govt departments are a violation of the constitution. but, the constitution is what the supreme court says it is. which is why, among other things, corporations are now given the same rights of free speech as people.

    gwb never violated the constitution?!? ha! and i bet you were ranting and railing about it just as much then, as you do now about barack’s “violations”? lol!!!! and now, you are, like dan, saying someone i really don’t care for all that much, is my hero. sir. what a crock!

    yes, vern, i do think you are an idiot, your last post simply affirms my earlier opinions. no ad hominem attack here, just my opinion.

    doug s.

  • LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    I’m with you, Rick, ( oh, and thank you for your kind sentiments, by the way! )… when it comes to “riding weather”…forty degrees, and DRY pavement, and The Night Train..with it’s “loud”, melodious, “Screamin’ Eagle” slip on mufflers…. is leaving the station!  lol…unfortunately right now, I’m dealing with about seven inches of snow, so it will be a while…but I’m sure, what with Nobel Peace Prize “winner”, Al Gore’s claims of “global warming”, this white stuff will be gone soon…if only for a little while, and I’ll be on the road again.

    I’d like to add, as you can see this morning, by his easy going, “southern gentleman” style, you have no need to apologize to Vern,…he is the voice of moderation, the “mild mannered, easy going, quiet guy” in the corner….you know, the one…. like Doc Holiday, of by gone days…. who silently wraps his fingers around the handle of his single action, Colt revolver, smiles easily at any REAL insult, and calmly says…”I’m your huckleberry”…lol

    While today IS “trash day” in my neighborhood, it appears that I have missed one big bag of liberal “garbage”…. a foul smelling, and cankerous growth, that goes by the name of “Doug” lol…so I will deal a bit with him now….

    My goodness!…you are indeed a “one trick pony”, eh, Doug?…and to continue to use the tired old Saul Alinsky “bury then with bull shit statistics” tactic, is not only boring, but lacks any credence at all.

    As the old saying goes, “There are lies, damn lies, and statistics”….and anyone knows that you can selectively edit them so YOUR statistics will say whatever they want….but, while I have already played this “game” with you before, and proved your statistics to be almost all totally false…as are ALL lying, liberal statistics, I will just address your first two statements…since that is the order you chose them…I’ll leave the rest,  as when you do this,  you are simply trying to stifle debate by using excessive, amounts of dishonest statistics, wrongly thinking that they, somehow, “prove” your point…but they don’t.

    Your first statement:

    “republicans complaining about welfare are idiots. don’t these idiots know that the lowest ranking states for quality of life are called RED STATES.”

    This is so subjective as to require too much time to debate on a written blog,  but, it’s true that six of the bottom ten states in this ranking ARE “Red” states….in some polls.

    HOWEVER…. I might add that the very TOP state for “quality of life” is a RED state…Utah, in fact….”WHY?”, you incredulously ask, ….Republican government…WHITE people…very low crime rate (like I said, WHITE PEOPLE!)….and an extremely high percentage of CHRISTIANS! (MORMONS to be exact!)…….

    Yep…I’d say that pretty much tops the lists of things that make a great state to live in!  lol…and, in fact, FOUR of the top ten states in this ranking ARE Red states…more than Blue states, which only counted three states…and one of those is Hawaii, an “island paradise”, full of drug addicts and crime these days, due to the liberal policies advocated by it’s dishonest, democrat government….  which shouldn’t even be counted in this category….so, that kind of makes this a very shaky statistic to try to gloat over, and should certainly take any air of superiority out your dementedly dishonest sails.

    Your next TOTALLY false statement is much easier to refute, and is, in fact, a lie….

    “don’t these fools know that the Red states take way MORE money from the Federal government than the Blue states?”

    “Fools”, huh?…..Oh, really?…well, a quick check with with USA.gov says differently….

    Here is a breakdown of all 50 states and the District of Columbia by electoral map color and federal funding since 2000, according to USA.gov:

    “Blue States”….$12.2 Trillion…(democrats won last four presidential elections)

    “Light Blue States”…$579 Billion….(democrats won three of last four presidential elections)

    “Purple States”….$4.78 Trillion….(democrats won two, Republicans won two, of last four elections)

    “Pink States”….$5.8 Trillion….(Republicans won three of last four presidential elections)

    “Red States”….$5.6 Trillion….(Republicans won last four presidential elections)

    So, even if you add the “Pink” state totals to the “Red” state totals, it STILL doesn’t match the total money given to the “Blue” state totals ALONE!….Shocking isn’t it?  lol

    So, once again, Doug, you demonstrate how you lying liberals ALWAYS use faulty data to try to prove some wishful thinking lie…because you always edit the data to try to prove your PRECONCEIVED, dishonest conclusions…you’ve done it again…obama does it every day…he’s a liar, and if you continue to tout your faulty statistics as true, then, you will continue to remain a liar too….see how that works?  lol

    Anyway, that’s enough “shoveling” of your dishonest, liberal bullshit…nobody believes it, or wants to read that drivel, so the rest of your dishonest, slanted, liberal statistics can just lie there like some poor dead carp rotting on the river bank….they smell about the same.

    “My America” may be a thing of the past, Doug, but “My America” is what millions around the world have struggled to get too…risking their lives and the lives of their loved one to reach “Her”.

    The anti-American, obama, does NOT  have “a finger on the pulse of america”…he has a lying, liberal/socialist death grip on Her jugular….and She is fading fast and will NOT be the same country if the lying, liberal democrats and spineless Republicans don’t wake up and stop this lawless, anti-Constitution, tyrannical Kenyan madman.

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

  • This will be my last comment to you, doug, because you clearly have your own skewed view of facts. American values, sir, are based on the U. S. Constitution, not on what the current occupant of the White House think they should be. That he is not being held responsible for his illegal actions is most definately to the detriment of this country. People like you, who blindly accept what he does, embolden him, and empower him to continue his divisive, unconstitutional actions. I feel sorry for you, actually. Everything is somebody else’s fault (probably Bush even though he’s been out of office for some time now) and your hero is merely coping with the “toxic” environment. What a crock.

  • your saying barack is an idiot is NOT launching ad hominem attacks? i happen to think barack is *extremely* adept at understanding of the american people and american values. he’s simply trying to get something done in the toxic political climate he’s facing.

    while i don’t like romney-care, i realize barack probably would have gotten nothing, if he didn’t sell out to big pharma and the insurance companies. so i reluctantly give him a pass on this one.

    while i realize barack would have been gambling on his re-election chances if he let all the gwb tax-cuts expire in 2010, i think he should have gone for it – the economy would have been in much better shape in 2012, and there would have been less of an ability for the teabaggers to hold the country hostage over budget issues. sometimes you have to taks a step back before taking two steps forward. but, barack’s wanting to play it safe, oh well. for me, i cannot give barack a pass on this one. the gwb tax cuts were one of the reasons for the crash of 2007 – you don’t cut taxes while you are increasing govt spending exponentially. barack should have had the cojones to let the gwb taxcuts expire and let the chips fall where they may. but this does not mean he does not have a finger on the pulse of america or its people just cuz i disagree w/him.

    so, to say barack is ignorant of america and its values says to me that whoever is saying that, is an idiot – they are saying *their* values are *america’s* values, w/o considering just what america’s values might really be. this is NOT an ad hominem attack. this has NOTHING to do w/my feelings of self-worth. this is my simply my OPINION. and thank you for allowing me to be welcome to it, just as i am welcome to you having yours.

    doug s.

  • Doug, does launching ad hominem attacks at people on here somehow enhance your personal feelings of self worth? Perhaps Obama is not an idiot as far as Webster’s is concerned, but his lack of understanding of the American people and American values makes him an idiot in my personal dictionary. You, of course, are welcome to your own opinion.

  • hey vern, while barack is not on my list of faves, he’s certainly no idiot. i suspect that if you were even half as smart as barack you would be twice as smart as you actually are. ;~)

    i’m getting close to 60 now, and, tho i can’t say i have been overly fond of anyone who has occupied the oval orofice in my time, i think only ronnie and gwb qualify as idiots. ymmv…

    doug s.

  • I might take you up on that, my only problem is I melt if the temperature breaks 90 degrees…

    If thin blood keeps you cool in hot weather, then I have blood like molasses…

  • Not surprised to hear you are a fan of Vermont Doug, home of probably the only elected Communist in all of America.

    As for Dan, IMO he is a great American, for many reasons, but especially because he not only remembers, but he pays tribute to history that made this the greatest country on the planet…

    And Doug I will leave you with this little saying about Vermont.”Vermont would be a great state if it wasn’t for Vermonters…”

    And I’m sure Vermonters have many sayings about the lovely state of Massachusetts… See that’s what makes New England great, we aren’t bigots, we hate everyone equally 🙂

  • Rick, sometime this Spring, (once all that horrible white stuff has gone away) motor on down to Marietta, GA and we’ll find some fun twisties to ride.

  • See now that just makes me jealous.

    Typically in December I too am still riding, because the white stuff usually hasn’t started to fall yet and the weather is still in the 40’s. Being born and raised here, 40’s is considered riding weather. Unfortunately this year we had a good dose of global warming and the average temperature has been around 23 with three or four good snow storms already. I have no problem riding in the cold, but once we get snow, they run around with trucks spreading sand, salt and other chemicals all over the place making the roads pretty much a death trap for a bike even after the snow melts… Of course an inch (and we had a lot more than an inch) of snow can take a month to melt here so I have to accept that my baby is in a deep sleep until April…

    Maybe time to start looking for property in the Carolinas again…

    You know a few years a go I saw a guy put a track on the back of a dirt bike and ski on the front. It was the strangest thing I ever saw, but he is probably out riding today…

  • Hey Rick, No need to apologize to me. Anytime someone lives where cold white stuff falls from the skies and blankets the earth, therefore keeps one from the god-given right to RIDE, I understand having to talk about something. I, on the other hand, rode to work this morning on my Harley, and will again tomorrow. It’s supposed to be around 70 this weekend but a large thunderstorm is predicted. Not sure if I’ll ride Saturday. I can ride, so I don’t have to talk about the idiot in the White House. LOL

  • afaik there are some good americans living in new england. vermont especially.

    if dan is an indicator of a “good american”, then america’s best days are behind it, and its days as a significant player in world affairs are numbered.

  • Sorry Vern,

    The reasons I ride is not only for the ride, but the for the time we spend shooting the sh*t at the end of the day with the guys I ride with. And it may be a New England thing, but arguing politics and religion is the national past time around here.

    Add to that the fact that I spent one day loading my 8 ton pf pellets into my storage garage for the winter and two days shoveling snow and lastly the sad realization that it is going to be at least three months before my backside is in the saddle again. I was just itching for a good argument. Hell after Doug’s response all I needed was a few beers and a good cigar and I would have sworn I was up in the White Mountains after a long day of riding with LOUD PIPES…

    I apologize to those who don’t see the world through New England eyes and Dan stand tough, good Americans are a dying breed…

  • wow, dan, every time i can’t believe how ignorant you are, you come back with something even *more* stupid and pathetic. amazing…

  • LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    LOL…Vern, as I recall, you’re sitting in Georgia…not exactly “palm tree weather” right now, but, Rick and I are sitting in snow, and single digit wind chill factors…we need some HEAT!  lol

    We can all “sleep peacefully” when we’re dead….or riding a “whisper quiet” Gold Wing! lol

    WOW!….good thing I “fortified” my coffee with a shot of Hershey’s chocolate syrup this morning! lol

    My goodness!…to think that I was just innocently wanting  to share some inspiring information about an important date in America’s history, so that all my riding brothers and sisters on this forum could be reminded of the pride that all Americans SHOULD feel on the anniversary of that day, when, long ago, some very brave, CONSERVATIVE men…”Tea Party-ers”, just like me!….who believed in lower taxes, keeping more of what you earn with your own labor, being responsible for your own life and the choices YOU make and PAYING YOUR OWN WAY,  and, above all, FREEDOM!….stood up against an uncompromising tyrant….just like obama!….only to be met with multiple and  extremely emotional, totally irrational rants, by an admitted socialist,  about “deep-throating” Jesus, and “out of control” vaginas!…OH!…THE HUMANITY!  lol

    Why is it that the liberal agenda ALWAYS makes every argument about some kind of unholy sexual “obama-nation”? 

    But, first, I would like to say, EXCELLENT POST! , Rick…insightful, informative, and refreshing.  You are a gentleman, and a scholar…and, as my friend “Sean” would say…A GREAT AMERICAN!  lol

    Now, to Doug…since we just naturally have such a great rapport, I feel that we need to have a very serious discussion here about your overly emotional outbursts over seemingly harmless and informative historical reminders of just WHO Americans really are.

    Anyway, as any addict will tell you….whether it’s alcohol, drugs, or obama Kool-Aide…the FIRST step in RECOVERY is to face up to your ADDICTION ….admit you have a problem…and let those that really care about you…like me…help you.

    You must recognize that all those liberal “demons” running around in your head…are NOT your fault!

    They are the result of decades of lying, liberal teachers in elementary school, junior high, and high school…and furthered along by the dishonest, anti-America, socialist/communist “professors” that, I assume…. since you’ve told us all about your “extremely high” IQ number…. you were forced to listen to in our, so called, “institutions of higher learning”…which are now mostly just liberal/progressive/socialist propaganda factories intent on students forming a firm and “correct” political orientation, which means they should study, and accept, Marxism as their own.

    As far as all those erratic, irrational, hostile thoughts…the rapid breathing…the blood pounding in your ears….  the very instant you hear a “conservative” name…such as “Sarah Palin”…just remember, to borrow a well known liars phrase…”You didn’t build that!…someone else did!”…and, in your case, he’s right…unbelievable as it is to comprehend.  All those Pavlovian reactions…of hostility, anger, RAGE…those liberal teachers, and socialist professors “built” those thoughts for you, Doug…IT”S NOT YOUR FAULT!…write that down….repeat it over and over, until you realize that it is TRUE!

    A good example I might use to illustrate what has occurred in your life, is from the 1962 version of the  movie, “The Manchurian Candidate”, which, coincidentally,  I just recently saw again….a very good movie!

    You can be compared to the main character, played by Laurence Harvey.  He is an innocent American soldier during the Korean conflict, that was taken prisoner by the lying, evil, communist North Koreans..who thought very much like obama, and his lap dog democrats think…that the “government” should run everything, and individual people are only here to serve the government.

    Anyway, during his indoctrination…or “brain washing”, as they called it, much like YOUR “teachers” and “professors” gave YOU, Doug….this innocent soldier was psychologically “re-trained” so that whenever someone pulled out a deck of cards and showed him a certain card…let’s just say the “Ace of Spades”…representing his own mother….the soldier would suddenly….just like YOU, Doug…. want to kill anyone, and everyone who stood for anything that might interrupt his mother’s planned communist agenda to take over America…very similar to that of the Kenyan born, barrack insane obama!

    Do you see the similarities!…it’s exactly the same feelings you get every time you hear the names “George Bush”, “Mitt Romney”, “Sarah Palin”, “Rush Limbaugh”…and any other names of dozens of loyal, conservative, REAL Americans who have a love of THEIR country, and stand up to the power grabbing, take over agenda of the liberal/progressive/socialist democrat party, led by obama….YOUR  “Ace of Spades!”  LOL

    “They” did this to you, Doug…that long line of lying, dishonest, anti-American, liberal teachers and “professors”!

    So, I won’t go into the Kool-Aide induced, multiple lies you have put into print on this forum, as it’s not necessary…everyone has read them themselves…and it would not serve any “healing” purpose for you to be reminded of your past, dishonest “indiscretions”, as it truly IS NOT YOUR FAULT!…remember that….write it down… and BELIEVE IT!

    As another great American, Rick, from Massachusetts has shown you in his quite eloquent posting…you don’t…you CAN’T…. know “everything” about “everything”, so don’t punish yourself….just relax, stop listening to MSNBC, CBS, NBC, NPR, PBS, ABC, and CNN…those networks ALL lie, spin, cover up, and simply FAIL TO REPORT anything….can you say “Benghazi”?…. that shows the incompetence and evil intent of barrack “insane” obama, and his rubber stamping lap dogs in the democrat party.

    Listen to and watch Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levine, Michael Savage, Laura Ingraham…and others of the conservative political persuasion …it’s the only way to cast out all those angry, bitter, demonic, liberal thoughts, and truly see the light of truth, justice, and the American Way, Doug.

    You’ll soon recover, life will seem clear and fun again, and all those negative, bitter, twisted emotions that have been force fed into your head will dissipate and you will be “born again” to become the good citizen, and true American you were really meant to be.

    Good luck…and always remember…..I’m here for you, Doug!

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

  • good point, vern. which is what i basically said, when responding to a completely off-topic post from dan, who re-awakened this thread which had been sleeping peacefully for a month. but yes, i confess to being guilty of rising to the troll bait…

    i was joking when i said loud pipes cause brain damage. but maybe there’s a bit of truth to it… maybe loud pipes just decrease the signal-to-noise ratio, to everyone’s detriment.

    doug s.

  • Fellas,
    Do your views of politics have anything at all to do with whether or not loud pipes save lives? I’m just saying…

  • republicans complaining about welfare are idiots. don’t these idiots know that the lowest ranking states for quality of life are called RED STATES.

    don’t these fools know that the Red states take way more money from the Federal government than the Blue states?

    I, for one, am sick and tired of the GOP voting LEECHES that are bankrupting America.

    Want to talk welfare?

    Does anyone here know that every tax-paying American is forced to fund the “Faith Based Initiative” scam. Pat Robertson took $500,000 in one year alone…while he sits there on TV railing against government programs for the poor.

    Off-shore tax-evasion scams are right-wing WELFARE schemes. that deprive middle class americans from jobs.

    Privatization scams, like prisons that are GUARANTEED full capacity by government is a right-wing WELFARE scheme.

    The Neo-Cons love that the US sends eleven billion in FREE money to Israel and her allies (we also pay her bribes to Egypt and Saudi Arabia)…each and every year…that pays for Israel’s free healthcare while 45,000 US citizens die each year from no healthcare.

    I didn’t even mention the military-industrial toilet bowl that now pays private contractors double or triple what we would normally pay for non-profit government services. Another complete scam by right-wing con-artists. and what 60% of our discretionary federal tax dollars go to – the funding of the military industrial complex.

    Exactly when will Democrats learn to threaten GOP conservative WELFARE scams that are truly bankrupting this nation? You can’t negotiate with terrorists if you don’t have a clue how to threaten. back in 2006 when the democrats regained control of congress, i sent out an email to all my acquaintances which said: “incompetence triumphs over evil”. same as it ever was….

    it’s the corporations that are running the show, the govt plays 2nd fiddle. am i a socialist for wanting it to be the other way around? am i a socialist for wanting to stop america’s slide into oligarchy? i am a socialist for being disgusted that america spends far more on healthcare than any of the other 34 nations comprising the oecd, yet america’s health ranks towards the bottom of that group? i am a socialist for being appalled at the deteriorating state of america’s infrastructure, while america’s tax rate is lower than all but two nations that comprise the 35 oecd member nations? yet, republicans complain about our high tax rates? and corporate welfare runs rampant while the middle class is decimated? i am a socialist for this? and there is something *BAD* about that? ever look up the definition of what a society is?

    there’s certainly no effing way i would “stand with rand”. the slide to oligarchy would become an avalanche. bernie sanders, that commie pinko senator from vermont is considering making a run. he’s got my vote if he does…

    doug s.

  • Normally I would let Dan fend for himself, but seeing as I am sitting about 10 miles from where the tea was dumped, it is 8 degrees outside, my bike is sitting under it’s winter blanket and we are in the middle of another snow storm, I’m bored and feel like jumping into the middle of fight just for the heat it will generate…

    Okay so let’s start with Obamacare and Romneycare. From a purely legal point, it is semi-legal for a state to pass a law such as that it is not legal for the Federal government, so lets not overlook that very important point. Second if you spent more than 30 seconds in Massachusetts you would know there is no such thing as a Republican bill in this state. Both the House and Senate have super democratic majorities and can override any veto that a republican governor tries, so hanging Romneycare strictly on Mitt Romney is not only wrong but oh so ignorant of the state of Massachusetts. Did Romney champion Romneycare, yes he did. Was he wrong for doing so, oh so much so. Did he pass it without overwhelming support from the Democratic machine in Massachusetts (which by the way is hard wired into the Obama machine), no he did not, the Democrats own as much of Romneycare as Romeny does. Has Romneycare been modified dramatically by the sitting Democratic Governor, “Coupe” Deval Patrick (referred to locally as Mini Me, because he is Obama’s Mini Me), so much so that it no longer even resembles what was passed under Romney and is on the verge of bankrupting Massachusetts.

    As for the bailouts, unfortunately GWB started the bailouts, again with Democratic and Republican support, he was wrong, Obama was wrong for continuing them and both sides of the isle were wrong for supporting them. Liberals love to knock the Free Market system (which by the way is protected by the Constitution, so if you don’t like it leave or start writing amendments, but don’t just violate the law like Obama does) but in the free Market system you are free to succeed in business and you are free to fail in business. I don’t believe in government controls, but by the same token there should be no such thing as government bailouts… Shame on everyone in Washington for such an asinine idea as “too big to fail”… Bush wanted to save big business Obama saved the unions and the American people got screwed and paid the bill.

    As far as Republican’s trying to control woman’s vagina, sorry the woman that run around screaming about that typically can’t control their own vagina, so no we aren’t interested in controlling it for them. What we are interested in is not paying for what they do with it. If they want to sleep around and screw anything with a a heartbeat fine, have to it, just don’t expect me to pick up the tab for it. I find it hard to believe they made a victim out of a woman attending an ivy league school because she couldn’t afford $9 a month for her birth control and you scream about 1%’ers, REALLY???. Call Obamacare what it really is, healthcare for whores, sleep with who you want, don’t worry big sugar daddy Obama will pay for it, of course he will use our money to pay the bill.

    I will agree with Doug for one thing, he isn’t an Obama supporter or even a liberal, he is far, far to the left of liberal and planted securely in Socialism, a single payer system where no one makes any profit, sounds like socialism to me Doug. You complain about insurance companies making money, you complain about 1%’ers keeping the money they earned, yet you want to buy ivy league whores birth control pills, and this makes sense to you Doug, I’m not even sure Socialism covers that, we light have to invent a new term or maybe crazy is sufficient.

    As for John McCain goes, he was an American hero, but he is a politician who has long since exceeded any rational thought in politics. Not sure why liberals rail against him so much, he is far more aligned with the left than he is with the right anymore, the budget, welfare, immigration, Syria (really any war he can stick his nose in), he has been Obama’s best ally through most of those fights.

    That said the current leadership in the Republican party is no bag of joy either, they have about as much direction as a fart in a gale wind. If the current Republican Leadership takes over in 2014 we aren’t going to be much better off than we are with the skeleton Harry Reid calling the shots.

    Maybe you can both agree to Stand with Rand in 2016 and start to turn this country in the right direction again…

  • you are so ignorant, dan. still lying about me. still babbling that i like barack. give it up already.

    i think romney care sucks. you know – the same plan that the repubs pushed 10 years ago, because it still gives the insurance companies and big pharma a big piece of the pie? you know, the plan they now oppose with such venom because a “democrat” pushed it through? you know, the plan they now so vehemently oppose because the overwhelming majority of americans will discover that, bad as it is cuz it is not universal single payer healthcare, that it’s better than nothing, which is what we had before? but, i think barack could have done better. that some tarted up republican healthcare sell-out to the big pharma/insurance company…

    i think calling someone like edward snowden a traitor when he is a national hero sucks. barack did that.

    i think not letting all the gwb tax cuts expire in 2010 sucks; barack refused to let them all expire.

    i think pushing the asia trade agreement sucks – barack is pushing it.

    i think granting the telecoms immunity from prosecution for illegal phone-monitoring sucks; barack voted for that while senator.

    i could go on, dan. but you don’t like to be confused w/truth or facts. instead you will just continue to babble about “my messiah obama”. barack sucks big time. but this does not mean i don’t still count my lucky stars that barack beat mccain or romney.

    i am not a liberal; they’re just evil right-wing “lite”. but, they are the least worst choice in today’s american political circus. the republicans, (not conservatives – republicans don’t know the meaning of the word), want to promote the 1%’er’s above all else, want to decimate the middle class, want to make corporations people too, want to get inside your private dwelling, want to force jesus christ down everyone’s throats, they want to control every woman’s vagina, and they want to control the entire world. thanks but no thanks.

    i have not lied once in this discussion. not a single time. just because an ignorant cretin like yourself says i am lying does not make it so.

  • LOL….pointing out…again… what a dangerous, dishonest, arrogant charlatan your “messiah”, obama, really is just “cuts you to the quick”, doesn’t it?

    But, when it comes to muddled thinking, I’ll have to defer to someone with actual experience….if anyone knows about “brain damage”, it’s another lying, liberal like you, Doug.

  • LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    Today marks the 240th anniversary of the Boston Tea Party.

    In a courageous act of defiance, a small band of colonists stormed the Boston Harbor to send a message to the British Crown by throwing crates of tea into the harbor. That moment was one of the many pivotal events that led to the American Revolution and ultimately American independence.

    Our Constitution was born out of the idea that no government…nor INDIVIDUAL…. should become so powerful that it…OR HE… infringes on the basic rights….ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR…. of human beings.

    While many of us agree that most of our elected officials have drifted away from the Constitution, or are too spineless to stand up for it,  the true POWER and true ACCOUNTABILITY comes FROM THE PEOPLE!

    It is up to US to convince our fellow Americans that the Constitution IS a document that protects us all from an OVERBEARING federal government,  so that one day we may truly RESTORE the balance of power and maximize individual liberty and opportunity for all Americans.

    While certainly bad enough, obama’s stimulus package, and his bank bailouts, started the growth of the modern day Tea Party, but it is the aptly named “health care” monstrosity, OBAMA-CARE, that has really focused the spot light of truth on a totally dishonest, inept, and  out of control government, headed by an egotistical and truly tyrannical figure head.

    Obama-care was rammed through our government without regard for over 70 percent of the American citizen’s protests….leading to the intensifying of the modern day “Tea Party”.

    We warned about the lies, deceptions, loss of jobs, and increased taxes, this monstrosity would bring…but the dishonest obama….aided by a dishonest, corrupt, liberal mass media…. continued to spread the LIE that it would LOWER costs, IMPROVE care, and CUT healthcare spending….NONE of that is true, as those easily duped are beginning to see, and the dishonest obama and his minions have changed their stories to say that obama “really didn’t lie”, or “didn’t know”….which we all KNOW is yet another lie….PERIOD!….and adding “LIE OF THE YEAR” to obama’s other “awards”.

    “Loud pipes” can come in many forms…and, when a government…or any SINGLE PERSON in that government….thinks that HE alone CAN and WILL decide what is “best” for the American people, then it is time to stand up and let your voice be heard….for truly, “loud pipes” not only save individual lives, they are the ONLY way to save the very life of LIBERTY ITSELF in America as well!

    Those patriots in Boston, 240 years ago, sent a strong message to King George of England…loud and clear!

    Remember the LIARS that WROTE, VOTED FOR , and PASSED Obama-care….LIBERAL DEMOCRATS ALL!….and turn the traitors out of office next November…. and every November…. until there is not one of them remaining in office.

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

  • RE: “If you LIKE your exhaust pipes….you can KEEP your exhaust pipes….PERIOD!”

    @DAN – I have to admit, that made me LOL …

  • G’day Rob,

    Well, You know it, and I know it…so keep on doing what you’re doing.

    We have a new saying here in America that gives guys like you and me great confidence that we can continue to add that simple safety feature to our rides…

    It’s been made popular by our new “king”, and is quite inspiring….it goes….

    “If you LIKE your exhaust pipes….you can KEEP your exhaust pipes….PERIOD!”

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

  • Gidday from New Zealand..
    To answer your question about loud pipes ( exhausts ) my answer is yes they do save lives . My youngest son and I ride high performance bikes ( A Fireblade and a R1 with what we refer to as sports cans . Yes they are a lot louder than standard but we have found through our own experience that other motorist become aware of you because they can hear you . The same with wildlife, when they hear you coming they tend to shy away from the road . I don’t know what drivers are like in the states but over here they are diabolical . I have been riding on both the road and track for 40 years with no crashes ( touch wood ) and I will continue to ride with a sports can . And yes I agree there are quite a number of bikes out there with excessive noise levels which we find annoying . Conclusion , loud ( ish ) pipes save lives..

    Rob.

  • LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    Jeez, “Rain man”….seems like when you’re driving, two wheels or four, nothing’s safe…SUVs…other bikers….deer…how about stationary objects?….have any problems with trees? 

    Sounds like you should ride the bus…the short one!….”A hundred dollars…’bout a hundred dollars”….lol

    ————————————————————————————————

    Vern……They WERE commenting by wanting to get a closer look….Hey!…It’s a HARLEY FREAKIN’ DAVIDSON!  lol

    LOUD PIPES SAY LIVES!

  • i am thankful when i *don’t* see wildlife on the road when i am riding. i hit a deer that jumped in front of my car; cost ~$2k. my wife hit one; same thing; cost her ~$2k. a neighbor on his h-d hit one that jumped into his lap, cost him his bike, 2 months in bed w/metal things sticking out of his leg, and another 6 months to recuperate.

    where i live, i am as concerned about wildlife as i am about cagers.

    ymmv,

    doug s.

  • “Hmmm….still no rational answers to my perfectly clear questions….”

    lol! you have a bad case of “pot calling the kettle black” syndrome. ;~)

  • Dan,
    I agree that close encounters with wildlife make riding all the more enjoyable. Last summer I was on Highway 6 in Utah on my way to Highway 128 and Moab. The road was not in the greatest of condition so I was driving cautiously. Suddenly I was directly in the middle of a group of about 20 Pronghorns that decided to cross the roadway. One moment they weren’t there, the next they were. I stopped my 2011 Ultra Classic in the road (there was no other vehicular traffic) some of these lovely animals commented on the beauty of my bike as they ambled by. Well, maybe they didn’t, but they could have. LOL

  • LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    Hmmm….still no rational answers to my perfectly clear questions….

    Well, “dog boy”….I’m no psychiatrist….but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!…lol

    And, it appears that my diagnosis is correct….you ARE having a mental breakdown!  lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    P.S.

    For any of the other sane readers of this blog, who, like me, are bikers AND also nature lovers, late September in Michigan means we more often see the daytime movements of large numbers of Michigan’s  Northern White Tail deer….usually they are most active near dusk and dawn.

    I had a very pleasant incident occur while out riding yesterday.

    As I turned off one road, on to another, approximately three miles from home, I saw a doe and her beautiful young fawn starting to cross the road, about 100 yards up ahead of me. It was clear that they were not frightened of anything, as they were just leisurely walking across the road.

    As I  continued toward them, they both stopped in the middle of the two lane road, and looked at me ( clearly admiring my beautiful black, Harley Davidson 100th Anniversary Edition, Night Train! lol).

    I slowed my approach, thinking that they would be frightened and dart off across the road and into the nearby woods….

    To my delighted surprise, they stood perfectly still…continuing to look at me.

    I coasted closer and closer until I was approximately 100 feet from the both of them, then came to a complete stop.

    They continued to stand perfectly still, looking at me….this wonderful moment lasted for, at least, a full 15 seconds!

    I “blipped” my throttle just a bit ( she obviously wanted to hear the “music” of my Screamin’ Eagle slip on mufflers! lol )…., the mother stared for another five seconds or so, then turned her head, and they proceeded to leisurely walk across the black top and into the nearby wooded area….

    I then proceeded on my way, thankful that God had allowed me this beautiful encounter.

  • dan, instead of constantly posting your bullshit, and instead of constantly saying my facts are lies, how about trying to disprove them? i am not holding my breath. your stupidity speaks for itself.

    doug s.

    ps – night train – better handling/maneuverability?!? rotflmao!!! you just lost whatever little credibility you had left!!! hahahahaha!!!!

  • LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    “A hundred dollars…’bout a hundred dollars!”….LOL….see what I mean?…

    Jeez, Doug….I check this blog about every morning, but I don’t standby drooling like you do waiting for someone else to post so you can attack them….although, you’re my “favorite” denier because it means so much to your lying, liberal psyche.

    You’ve just posted more dishonest liberal statistics…. repeated… that are easily disproved, as I’ve shown before, and, just because you don’t have the integrity to admit it, “Raymond”, I mean Doug…. doesn’t mean I’ll waste more time on your repetitious, “caught in a loop” teleprompter recital…like your messiah obama.

    Your fanatical compulsion to continuously monitor this thread, and immediately respond to practically every post says a lot about your insecurities, and I would suggest, why you constantly try to impress people here with your wild lies about phantom SUVs chasing you, or how fast, and great handling your anemic little metro-sexual, metal box on four wheels is, your riding experience….or that last, very pathetic “I.Q.” boast….very sad.

    As I’ve said, this thread seems to be WAY too important to your identity, and I wonder if you might be bordering on some kind of mental breakdown.  You don’t seem to be able to emotionally handle the “back and forth ” trash talking”, won’t concentrate on any one “fact” that you present, and have NEVER rebutted any of my claims about obama, his lies, or his destructive policies…which I document…but constantly say that I am the one “lying”….you’re irrational, and in denial….

    Example…OBAMA BEING BORN IN KENYA…I asked you about obama’s self written, and twice updated book publisher biography, and WHY obama was content to let that information stand for sixteen years,  despite editing it at least two times, that he WAS born in KENYA, and only changed it when campaigning for president?

    Example…OBAMA CLAIMS HE ENDED THE WAR IN IRAQ….I asked you why did obama dishonestly claim during his campaign, and still says, that HE “ended the war in Iraq”, when  it was clearly President Bush…in October 2008, even before obama was elected… that signed the agreement to remove all U.S. soldiers from Iraq, by 31 December, 2011?

    Example….OBAMA BEING A MUSLIM…I asked you,  would a Christian, Jew, or a member of any other religion…OTHER THAN A MUSLIM….state TWICE in the same five minute interview with George Stephanopolous, on ABC,  during his first presidential campaign, that he thanked John McCain for “not making MY MUSLIM RELIGION an issue”?…though the dishonest, liberal George Stephanopolous repeatedly reminded him to CORRECT his statements…no media bias there!

    What I got was zero answers, and yet more claims of “lying”, and another deluge of false, incomplete “data”,  about the “top one percent”, etc….yada…yada…yada.  At that rate, NOTHING is ever settled.

    And, your “p.s.” of …”ps – unless your night train is decidedly different than a h-d heritage soft-tail, THEN i stand by the fact (????? ) that my gen-1 scion xb is faster. MAYBE NOT IN  STRAIGHT LINE ACCELERATION. duh!”…. is just ANOTHER example of how you lying liberals make a totally false claim, then when called on it, FLIP FLOP and start spinning their totally false remarks….kind of like another one of your liberal heroes, Slick Willie Clinton’s…”it depends on what “IS”, is.”, right?

    I don’t….and won’t…. HEDGE on my statement…my Night Train is faster, and can beat your little pregnant roller skate in ANY type of race, due to it’s better acceleration, top speed, and MUCH BETTER  handing and maneuverability….PERIOD.

    I grew up attending schools that had an extremely high, majority percentage of “nee-groes”…simply an unfortunate fact of geography for me. That resulted in my having to play sports with them, almost exclusively, after school on the playground basketball courts. While there were always SOME that were taller, quicker, or overall better players than me, I WAS pretty good, and showed it…you simply HAD to be, or you never played, and had to just watch from the sidelines….basketball WAS an “identity” to these people, and they simply HAD to win to “save face”.

    When I DID show up, I was ALWAYS one of the very first to be picked when teams were being chosen. I learned early on, that, due to “the game” being SO important to these people, that even the most talented ones, could almost always be thrown off “their game” by the “mental war”, of “trash talking”….which I would almost immediately RETURN the minute I heard the frequent claim…”I got this white boy”….and, my teams seldom lost, holding “control” of the court until we were simply tired of playing.

    I think Michael Jordan expressed it very well in an interview while he was in the process of winning six NBA championships, and was asked if all his “trash talking” was really “necessary”…he replied, ” I never START it, but, once it begins, I AM ruthless!, lol…and as the game wears on,  it always shows up in  the other player’s performance….but, you have to leave it on the court at the end of the game, and go on about your life.”  I think that is a great philosophy, and I do that…unfortunately, it would seem that you, Doug, can’t “leave it on the court”, and it has become an unhealthy obsession with you, as your continuous, all day monitoring of this thread,  and multiple posts per day, clearly indicates….you seem in constant need of “saving face”.

    That same tenacity, expressed by “MJ”,  was very valuable to me throughout high school and college, when encountering the almost constant parade of liberal teachers, and “professors” ….they simply were NOT used to ANYONE speaking up to counter their false statements, and bullying their “captive audience” of innocent students,  and most times, they became easily upset, even irate, cutting off any further discussion of their politically biased rants….attempting to “save face”.

    While I would truly enjoy debating you face to face, because I simply would not allow your adult attention deficit disorder to let you jump from subject to subject, before addressing my arguments…as obama did in his debates with Romney, every time he was caught in another lie and even needing the dishonest liberal “moderator”, Candy Crowley to defend and rescue him…..as a good “beat down” of any lying liberal is always satisfying, your posts on here…which you often seem to think requires you to re-print ALL my previous post…are  simply boring, and take up way too much space and time to read through, yet NEVER disprove my statements with any knowledgeable, verifiable support…simply more weak accusations of “lying, lame,”, etc.

    If you weren’t such a nasty, bitter person, that was attacking everyone on this thread that didn’t agree with you, but simply stated their opinion…such as Christine, or Cjay…I probably wouldn’t have bothered with you, recognizing that you were just another cyber bully with some kind of inferiority complex….but you did, so I countered you, which, due to the previously mentioned psychological problem of yours, has set off some true, inner turmoil for you.  I WOULD like to apologize for taking advantage of you….but I won’t, ’cause I gave you what you had coming to you!….Hmmm, maybe if your mother had breast fed you….lol

    I WOULD like to thank you though, Doug, for finally having the decency to recognize your insulting attitude towards other’s religion, and spelling GOD correctly…that little twinge of guilt shows that there IS some hope for you.

    TC…don’t be like Doug!…recognize WHERE your information is coming from, and the date of the material….Canada is becoming more and more socialist, with liberals dominating their media and politics,  and Montreal in particular, is one of the more liberal cities.  That report certainly “blows no holes in conventional wisdom”, and, if one actually scrutinizes their examples, it is easy to explain their biased “conclusions”…but again…one must actually WANT to find the truth, and NOT just try to support their emotional beliefs…..and, if you’ll notice your article about spending  STOPS with President Bush….but doesn’t mention the Kenyan obama, who has spent more money than any other president in history, and run up the national deficit faster and higher than anyone else, EVER!…but of course, like all liberals, obama ALWAYS blames his predecessor…even after almost FIVE YEARS in office following his disastrous socialist agenda.   That’s the kind of dishonest thing Doug, and all liberals, like to do so they can CLAIM that they are posting  the “truth”, when, in reality, it is clearly NOT the total truth, as they “cherry pick” their “facts”, then won’t admit it when people like me PROVE that they are wrong.  ALWAYS consider the source, and VERIFY the information!…..see what I mean?

    Jimbo…Your statement,  “Nuff already about loud pipes. The loudest pipes apparently are the mouths of PROPONENTS”, is certainly biased, and you seem to be a bit confused…after all, the subject of this blog IS “loud pipes”, is it not?…and the OPPONENTS of “loud pipes”…particularly Doug, as he shows again with his one-day, multiple  posts…would seem to indicate that THEY are the ones who’s “mouths” are the “loudest”.  That certainly doesn’t make their totally unsupported views right…it’s just the dishonest liberal way of trying to “win” any argument by “shouting down” any opposition, then acting as if they have “proven” their argument…it doesn’t, of course,  but they use that dishonest tactic in all facets of discussion, refusing to address the honest, legitimate questions, or requests for proof,  asked of them by people like me, or presenting ANY ….even weak….supporting, verifiable “data”.

    Vern….”But Dad….HE started it!”…lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    P.S.  That nappy-headed, “Hopey/Changey” guy, PROMISED, on June 5, 2008 that he would lower health  care costs by $2500 dollars for a family of four by the end of his first term…however, Forbes reported yesterday that actually, the monstrosity, obama-care,  will RAISE the health care costs of a family of four by $7,450 dollars per year…..that’s almost a $10,000 dollar swing in costs to Americans, who never did, and still don’t want, obama-care….another false obama “promise” disproved……the man is a socialist saint!  lol

    P.P.S….I had just finished my post when I saw that YOU, Doug, had returned to your totally disrespectful language…so….I withdraw my “thank you”, and say you are, and will probably always be, a totally bitter, obnoxious individual whose only hint of civility can’t even be maintained for one twenty four hour period….what an unredeemable jerk you are.

    .

  • i was behind an obnoxiously loud biker this morning on my commute, whilst riding my buell s2; thank dog it wasn’t much trouble to pass the effing effer. (and thank dog his obnoxiously loud bike became silent once i was in front of him.) i can understand why folks wanna pass laws to restrict the dB of exhausts w/effers like that, riding around.

    some folks complain about all their freedoms being restricted, but that’s what happens when there are so many a’holes around, who think it’s their right to purposely irritate the eff out of others. well, it’s my right not to have to put up w/you obnoxious loud idiotic effing effs.

    perhaps if there was more simple civility and respect and kindness, then there wouldn’t be so many “restrictions.” i know – kindness, civility, respect – what a bunch of communist lying liberal garbage… ;~)

    doug s.

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