Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?

Loud Motorcycle PipesTHE DEBATE GOES ON. I’ve never struggled so much to write a motorcycle article as I have with this one. A reader challenged me to enter the discussion about loud pipes earlier this year. At the time, I thought it an easy endeavor because I had my own years of experience and opinion on the matter.

However, I made a mistake: I decided to research the matter. And in the process, my opinion has been somewhat modified.

The Search for Evidence: “Loud Pipes Save Lives”

As you, too, might be inclined to do when seeking more info on a subject, I did an Internet search for “Loud Pipes Save Lives” and read through numerous articles at the top of the search results and much lower in the results.

What I came away with was less certainty on the subject than when I started. And more so than any time before, I recognized that truth can be illusive.

Now I don’t know if my personal experience is typical, or atypical, but I did ride for years with high-performance (and loud), exhaust pipes – when I was much younger. To this day, I don’t know how my ears survived. (Well, the fact is, now that I’m considerably more mature, the question of how well they survived is just as murky as my research on the matter of whether loud pipes save lives, or not.)

Although it appears my hearing is not as good as it used to be, how much of that is due to loud pipes or lots and lots of very loud concerts and very loud music blasting through headphones is difficult to discern. I’m sure it’s safe to say that neither supported long-term optimal hearing. (I only started wearing ear plugs while riding several years ago).

Loud Pipes Are Impractical For Long-Distance Touring

My first coast-to-coast motorcycle trip was on a motorbike with a high-performance, non-stock exhaust system that did not endear the neighbors to my notion of a spirited form of transportation. Although I’ve ridden coast-to-coast across North America a number of times since, I recall that first trip as a highlight of my life. And although I could discourse about the virtues of that summer adventure, in the early 80’s, for hours on end, one thing that I realized without any advice, feedback or suggestions from anyone else, was that loud pipes made for uncomfortable long-distance riding (and also that I would be switching from chain-drive to shaft-drive motorbikes for touring).

Personally, I don’t like loud pipes. As much as I love each and every kind of motorcycle, the only ones that diminish my enthusiasm for the brotherhood are those that disrupt the neighborhood harmony by announcing their every breath coming and going.

So, here I am, a long-distance, mature rider, with hundreds of thousands of miles of motorbike experience, who “used” to ride with loud pipes, and who has not liked them for years, and who is philosophically opposed to them due to their inherent and ongoing damage to the motorsport in the way they impinge on the lives of those non-riders whom are adversely effected by the noise pollution of their very existence. Hence, wouldn’t you think I’d be a vociferous opponent of the same?

Which brings me to the point of the first paragraph. I was already aware of the lack of real evidence that supports the concept that “loud pipes save lives.”

But lo and behold, my research did find anecdotal reports that extol the virtues of loud pipes.

The Truth, or Not?

So, what is the truth?

Are those riders who state that loud pipes “have” saved their lives just plain wrong?

What my research did “not” do is change my perspective on whether I, personally, will integrate loud pipes back into my riding: I won’t. In fact, in the future, I will likely include an electric motorcycle (which are practically silent), within a stable of riding choices.

However, what has resulted from my research regarding loud pipes is a softening of my perspective. Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals.

Even so, such does not address the rights of others to “not” be subjected to the noise of loud motorcycle exhaust systems.

In conclusion, although I am not an advocate for loud pipes, and even though I disagree with the use of the most obnoxious ones, and even though there is no hard evidence in support of their use as a safety catalyst, and even though the loudest pipes do damage to the overall public perception of motorcycling, I respect that there have been “some” quantity of riders (however large or small), who are still riding, purportedly as a result of loud pipes. Which has caused me to re-evaluate their application.

Better yet, what do YOU consider is the truth? Do loud motorcycle pipes save lives?

753 thoughts on “Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?

  • Fon perde ve tül modellerine 12 ay taksit ve güvenli ödeme seçenekleriyle ula?abilirsiniz. Ayr?ca blackout karartma perdeler, keten perdeler, desenli perdeler, tül perdeler, saten perdeler bu ba?lant?da.

  • “Senior, you said that you were trained by that person, are you really okay? Are you someone who suddenly runs away? Shisui-sama also said things like “Ziek is a dangerous guy who doesn’t know what to do”, and even calling him a “Master of Swords” might be a dangerous person.” – ????

  • As a motorcyclist for over 40 years, I offer this for others’ consideration. I am a staunch believer that loud pipes save lives or, at least have a much greater ability to, than say, hi-viz apparel, daytime lighting or, a horn and here is my explanation in support of that belief.

    Some people make the argument that loud pipes can not alert drivers ahead of the motorcycle because the exhaust outlet is pointed rearward. These people further assert that, since the motorcycle is traveling at a high speed, it is emitting the sound to the rear AND traveling AWAY from the sound at high speed. Some of these same people erroneously cite forward facing sirens on emergency vehicles as “proof” of this assertion. More accurately however, would be the comparison to a shotgun blast, a loud bass stereo system or, an emergency vehicle air horn — all of which are bass frequency sounds, unlike the sirens that are treble frequency. Bass is an omnidirectional frequency that expands in all directions from it’s source and not only in the direction that it is pointed. This explains why a shotgun blast, an EMS air horn, the loud bass notes from a live band or loud stereo or, a loud motorcycle exhaust can be heard from any direction and from a greater distance.

    The point made regarding the noise canceling ability of modern motor vehicle cabins, high quality audio systems and, the multitude of activities that drivers are distracted by are all valid and undisputed points. That being said, it is all the more evidence in support of loud pipes ability to alert other drivers of the approach or presence of a motorcycle. If these drivers are so distracted by their smartphones, conversations with other passengers, watching videos, reading, fixing their hair / make up, and / or juggling their breakfast or lunch and drink that they can’t be bothered with looking in their mirror or signaling before changing lanes or pulling out into traffic lanes then, motorcycles could be painted blaze orange and covered with enough lights to be visible from space and it would do absolutely nothing to prevent the negligence of the inattentiive drivers injuring or killing another motorcyclist and getting away with it by claiming they “didn’t see the motorcycle”. They “didn’t see it” because they weren’t looking.

    On the other hand, I have personally witnessed other drivers — in tractor trailers, brand new cars and trucks and everything in between, with their windows up and air conditioning on, respond in one of two ways as I approach at highway speed. They actually look in their mirrors and either: (1). Speed up to get as far away from me as they can or, (2). Slow WAY down to let me get as far away from them as possible. In either response, within minutes of being on the interstate, there is a space of several hundred feet between me and any other vehicle on the road until I approach the next on-ramp and the same process repeats itself.

    I accept the inherent risk of riding my motorcycle. There are so many things that can go wrong that aren’t anybody’s fault — wild animals, weather, road conditions, mechanical failure. The biggest threat, by far, are the distracted and impaired drivers on the road who have the “me first” attitude and, if I have to accept the additional risk of their negligence then they will just have to accept that my loud exhaust is going to annoy them to let them know that I am there.

  • This subject is becoming puerile!

    As far as I’m concerned loud pipes are irritating as are any other noise levels above 70 decibels.


  • Charles is probably right about Dan the Dan-fan. But he’s wrong about censoring him. While Amendment #1 doesn’t apply to any non-governmental body such as a personal or corporate blog on motorcycles, most outlets which facilitate the sharing of opinions (unless they themselves are narrowly agenda-driven) will try hard to operate in the spirit of #1.

    I say good for M.I. for continuing to allow Dan to reveal himself.
    To those who don’t like Dan, or don’t like those who don’t like Dan for that matter, don’t engage him/them or don’t look at M.I. It’s just like turning the TV off whenever a politician is on and speaking, unless one is curious to hear how, with their lies, they reveal themselves. It’s not always a waste of time. Sometimes it is revealing.

  • This Dan guy seems like a severely, even violently racist guy. Why is he given a forum to post his hate here? Makes no sense. This isn’t Breitbarf or InfoSores. This is a motorcycling blog. Man, you gotta wield that editing function. This shit was posted 4 years ago, and nobody has called you out on it? Amazing.

  • This subject has gone around and around, but one thing that I can’t understand from the “No Loud Pipes” crowd is this. You say that loud pipes annoy you, you say when your in your house and a bike with loud pipes goes by it rattles your windows and wakes your children, you say when a bike with loud pipes is near you you can’t hear your radio. Okay I’m not going to argue any of those points, because if you believe that, well then it is good enough for me. My only question is if all those things are true then how is possible that in all those situation the sound from loud pipes is unbearable, but when a car is driving down the road, all of a sudden they can’t hear a bike with loud pipes coming near them. How are both of those things possible. Either loud pipes are loud and you can hear them in all different places and times or they aren’t loud and you can’t hear them. If you can’t hear them then why do you care, if you can hear them, well then you are proving the point. If you want to argue they annoy you, well that is a different point, but you can’t argue that they annoy you and they don’t save lives, because those two things are mutually exclusive. As far as what annoys you, well there are a lot of things that annoy me, but in life in America, well that is a person right to annoy other people so you just have to learn to live with it.


    Thanks for pointing out the obvious fallacy of Bills’ amateurish argument, Pat, by admitting that you COULD hear other bikes with “loud pipes” approaching you from the rear.  You are obviously “in tune” with your surroundings while riding.  If you choose to have quieter pipes, trading off a “POSSIBLE” safety factor while riding, then that is surely your choice, as it SHOULD be.

    On the other hand, we have two other riders who ridicule “loud pipes” as even a POSSIBLE safety factor while riding, but that freely admit that they are so clueless while riding that they ignored a reasonable speed for the road they were on, and were both unaware that they were approaching a corner in the road that “wasn’t supposed to be there”…..

    People, like Jim and TC, I would not expect to grasp the logic of the POSSIBLE additional safety factor of “loud pipes”…they are simply accidents waiting to happen and nothing…not their “green rabbits’ foot”, a gremlin bell , or even “loud pipes”, will save these types of people.

    You however, Pat, I would expect DID “connect the dots”…but simply chose to go another way.

    It’s nice to have that freedom of choice, wouldn’t you agree?


  • Jim!
    That EXACT scenario happened to me a few years ago – that, plus gravel on the curve – and I broke 3 ribs.
    Didn’t have loud pipes or a green rabbit’s foot. My bad.
    My friend did send me a small bell to hang on the frame and so far it has worked beautifully!

  • I was once saved from having a deadly accident. I was travelling way too fast for road conditions, the corner was not suppose to be there. What saved my ass, was my trusty green rabbit’s foot attached to my motorcycle key chain. I think everyone should have a (green rabbit’s foot) to save their ass. It’s right up there with loud pipes.(hate them)

  • Sorry but loud pipes annoy, 92% of the hazards are in front of us between 10 & 2 o’clock on the clock face. So in order to save lives the motorcycles pipes need to point forward so as to warn the unaware motorist of our presents coming towards the oncoming traffic..

  • I like my Radio switched from loud to lighter rumble so I can listen to it at all speeds. Riding in between lanes in California I always thought I was safer with louder pipes since I could hear bikes coming up on me so I assumed others could hear me too. Nothing beats staying 100% aware and riding like everyone is out to kill you. I like my radio and music so my pipes have mellowed over the years. My neighbors like me better too!


    Hmmm…it appears this latest unwarranted attack is over three days old.

    What’s the matter MCg, having trouble seeing what kind of lowlifes always…ALWAYS…start these kinds of unprovoked verbal “love fests”?

    By allowing it to stand, you have given your tacit approval for such worthless drivel to be expressed…meaning that there will surely be others to follow.

    Okay, that’s fine…just step aside, please.

    So, John Pearce, that old “Village People” outfit not bringing you the “love” you crave at your favorite gay bar anymore, so you come on here for some attention by adding nothing to the dialogue but personal insults?…well, seek and ye shall find.

    Sigmund Freud had a term for people like you…superbus asinum sacculi…or at least he should have, .and, since I haven’t posted in almost ten months, it’s obvious that, even typing with “one hand”, I’m much too fast for a drooling liberal ass bag like you to keep up.

    I like actual thinkers, John Pearce…but liberal/socialist “thinkers” like you, are always wrong, and when others disagree with them…such as on whether or not there’s a POSSIBILITY that “loud pipes” add a real life safety factor to riding a motorcycle….or when their opinions lose at the ballot box…and they always lose…they run to some dishonest liberal judge or make some dictatorial “executive action” to get their fascist way enforced on the rest of us…liberty is lost, freedom of choice is stolen, and we are stuck with overwhelmingly unpopular, extremely divisive, dictatorial  rulings…and more failed, even deadly, liberal policies.

    That’s how WE THE PEOPLE end up with such perversions as “gay marriage”, the criminal obama-care scandal…hundreds of innocent dead Mexicans from the criminal olama’s Fast and Furious scandal…the criminal illegal mexican alien immigration scandal…the criminal Sanctuary City scandals…the criminal Solyndra solar panel scandal…the criminal Benghazi scandal …the criminal IRS scandal…the criminal  NSA scandal…the criminal EPA scandal…the criminal Clinton Foundation scandal…the criminal Hillary email scandal…in fact the list is endless when lying liberals, like you, obama-boy, are in power.

    It isn’t that I don’t like people that think…the problem is, rational liberal “thinkers” are like unicorns…they don’t exist, John Pearce.

    By the way, say “hey” to your momma for me.  She may be the spitting image of Harriet Tubman, but in the dark, even with no front teeth, she still has the gummy grip of a voracious moray eel.

    You looking for some “love”, John Pearce?….then yeah…I’m your huckleberry.

    Vaya con Dios, pendejo.


    P.S. Good post “johnnypineapple”…YOUR thinking is right on.

  • Dan needs to quit typing with one hand and move out of his mother’s basement. Maybe a dose of the real world will soften his hate for people who think… and maybe it won’t… but I’m sure Mom could use a break.

  • I think they save lives, I know sometimes I can hear a motorcycle or loud car in my blind-spot so I know to look for them. I don’t want them on my bike but I never ride in someones blind-spot either. There are people you see everyday that don’t check their blind-spot when they change lanes, they are called women (jk…sorta). If you were riding in one and had loud pipes I could see how you might have your life saved.


    Ahhh….finally….THE, very welcome, voice of “moderation”.

    Thank you, thank you…MCg.

    As Bruce Willis said in the movie “Die Hard”….

    “Welcome to the party, pal!”  lol


  • Hey guys and gals, I’m MCg, author of this website.

    I haven’t been good about monitoring the comments here, but it does appear that this particular discussion has descended to a fireworks festival of insults. (And some seem to be quite talented at it).

    Hence, I want to call to your attention this homepage statement: “The Motorcycle Intelligence community represents a global repository of knowledge and experience from highly skilled riders, as well as humorous and/or offbeat insights from others who are not.”

    It also states, “If your special perspective includes throwing hate on other bikes and riders, there’s other websites for you.”

    There are some experienced riders represented in this thread. However, some have elected to showcase their experience, intelligence and wit by also attacking and insulting others, when this website is about helping others. (At least that’s my intent. But I’ve also crashed several motorcycles over the years when my intent was simply to have fun, so my intent-o-meter might need some tuning).

    As a result, a small number of riders with different opinions, whom might otherwise enjoy a civil discussion when meeting somewhere on the road, have taken up a cause that is tantamount to online bullying.

    Since I do not know for sure who inspired this, I’m not sure who deserves the spanking or timeout. (When I was growing up, we didn’t have timeouts so you can be sure my bottom got smacked a lot.) If I was interested enough, I could spend some time going back through hundreds of comments to surmise how it began that a small group of riders condescended to the embrace of ad hominem attacks, rather than forwarding motorcycle community support. But I’d rather go for a ride.

    There are problems in our world and within the motorcycle community at large. Legislation about motorcycles pertaining to decibel levels is only one. More importantly, riders getting killed every day from inattentive drivers, is another. But throwing hate around to other riders is not part of any solution.

    I want to thank each of you for the sincere points of value offered to this website community. And I am serving notice that for any who choose to express their experience and opinions in a way that devalues others, such posts will be deleted.

    Personally, I am not advocating for anyone to go away. But I am hoping that all on this website will embrace a spirit of cooperation (as the majority of commenters on this website have already demonstrated over the years), and see if each might direct their comments solely towards informing the motorcycle community through respectful discourse.

    Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m heading out for a Sunday ride and perhaps a BBQ tri-tip steak sandwich….


    “This is a motorcycle newsletter and the subject is loud pipes. Pls get a life and go away with your political bs,”…so says “Tanga”…

    Oh really?…and just WHO do you think you are…the gay “Emperor of the Universe”, obama?

    You should have recognized what this forum is before you launched into your hostile, unfounded, personal attack on me.

    Since when does the definition of words…such as “man”…”woman”…”marriage”…”tax”…or “motorcycle newsletter”…mean anything now to you dishonest, morally degenerate liberal democrats?…you people seem to randomly change definitions to suit your unsavory behavior anytime you please these days.

    You entered this forum with a personal attack on me, with harsh name calling, and totally dishonest charges of “idiots like Dan…”….”obnoxious personality”….”sick comments”…”stupid, uneducated, racist pig”….

    So, since none of these charges are what you…or that drooling “son” of yours, claim… not only are you a typical, lying, obama loving liberal, who THINKS that…with his very FIRST post…he can make hostile, personal attacks on someone else, who he does not know, has never met, never even EVER talked to, but, because you disagree with my opinion…and many others on here…on this safety matter, you can, with impunity, make outrageous, and untrue, derogatory statements to, and about, me…and I will remain silent?

    You are truly a liberal fool…and as wrong as your liberal/progressive/socialist, anti American, degenerate, Kenyan born messiah…obama.

    You have proven, with your very first words, how rude and totally lacking of any civility your are…which reflects poorly, and directly, on the total lack of upbringing you received from your crack head mother…she obviously raised a social barbarian, who thinks he can run rough shod over others, because most others are good, conservative people who don’t like to argue, and just want to live their lives free from conflict…and will simply stand back and refuse to speak up and counter your contemptuous behavior…but we BOTH know that you disgusting liberals NEVER leave anyone alone, don’t we?

    Well…I AIN’T one of them.

    I detest uncouth, uncivilized, liberal democrats like you.

    If you want respect…show some respect…if you want civility…show some civility.

    In the  typical, lying liberal democrat behavior pattern, you have done neither…and you got what you deserved in return…not nearly ALL that you deserved, but some….

    Everyone here is free to express their opinion on this subject, and SHOULD be given the respect their personal opinion deserves.

    You liberals always seem to have a problem with that.

    Express your opinion respectfully…and civilly…accept that there WILL be some who disagree…and move on.

    However, if it’s a typical, liberal democrat, hate filled personal attack argument you want…”I’m your huckleberry”.

    Now…go give your “hubby” a kiss, and salute that rainbow colored flag, that surely must fly over your house these days in celebration, and make your plans to attend the new, annual, liberal democrat party sponsored, “Butt Bangers Ball”, at the Rainbow colored White House, and hosted by the “Liar of the Year”, the Kenyan born socialist, obama…himself rumored by several negroes, to have partaken of much degenerate, homosexual activity in Chicago, while serving as an Illinois state senator…and he still proudly proclaimed that he WAS born in Kenya, and was a “citizen of the world”.


  • This is a motorcycle newsletter and the subject is loud pipes. Pls get a life and go away with your political bs,


    Oh goody!…more fan mail!…no, wait…seems it’s something else….

    LOL…my goodness, what a “MA-ROON!”…and a half!

    Just more never ending, skull-full-of-mush, delusions of grandeur from yet ANOTHER hate filled, lying liberal democrat sodomite.

    Speaking of “sick comments”, and “obnoxious personalities”…no, I don’t mean obama, THIS time…you’re obviously another “shining” example of why homosexual pedophiles…always liberal democrats…shouldn’t be allowed to adopt kids, even innocent, mentally deficient mongoloids, unaware of how they’re being abused, like your drooling “son”.

    My Rottweiler, Daisy, easily has more mental capacity than “Tanga junior”…and “daddy”…combined!

    Bite me obama-boy…wipe your “son’s” chin…and YOURS!…and THEN “go away”.


    P.S. You, and the rest of the bitter, brain dead liberal democrat homos making up obama’s sycophantic base voters, that post their constant attacks on me here, would simply  “LOVE” my latest Harley Night Train, that I just brought back from West Virginia last night.

    “Why”, you ask?, in that lobotomized, slurred, liberal democrat pattern of speech you all have….well, because it’s….

    1)  BLACKER than your lying, Kenyan born messiah, obama!…

    2)  96 CUBIC INCHES OF RAW NOISE!…gleefully “shared” with all, at 3 am in the morning…but ONLY in YOUR neighborhood of course…through it’s gleaming  Vance and Hines, “Short Shot” exhaust pipes!…

    3)  ABLE TO LEAP TALL BUILDINGS IN A SINGLE BOUND!…no, wait…that’s my brother, “Super”….

    Anyway, my newest Night Train is truly a “work of art on wheels”…a divinely inspired, visually stunning delight for the eyes, and, with the colossal,  unmistakable, thunderous roar of it’s big V-Twin beat leading the symphony of…most would say, almost magical…”Milwaukee music”…well, it’s simply a gargantuan cornucopia of sound that would make even the Norse god Thor shed a tear of joy to behold!

    The only question is…will I pull out the baffles? …potato…potato…potato…LOL

  • Idiots like Dan-above are happy to polute our towns with their immature loud pipes and their obnoxious personnality. But please, leave these motorcylce forums free from your sick comments.

    My son would call this Dan a stupid uneducated racist pig ! I simply say ”go away” or I will.

  • Okay so I was just sitting on the sidelines and enjoying Dan’s replies (well done as always), but after my ride today I just had to jump back into fray. So today I finally got together why my usual riding group and a few other guys that we know but don’t ride with too much. For clarification, some drive Harleys, some drive metrics, but we all drive V-Twin Cruisers. We have a collection of pipes, some still run stock pipes, I personally run after market pipes with baffles in, some run aftermarket pipes with no baffles. We all headed on a short ride for a couple of hours, too much work to be done on the house after this winter to spend all day riding unfortunately.

    So the first thing we did was compare the winter modifications we made to our bikes. One guy in particular decided he wanted to be safer, so added the biggest friggin tail lights/brake lights that I have ever seen on a bike. They look like he mounted head lights on his rear fender, then he added blinking LED lights that wrap around his license plate. They don’t just light up when he applies the brakes, but they actually blink. His final “safety feature” is he got the biggest brightest yellow helmet on the planet. He looks like a yellow Gazoo (from Flintstones) when he has it on. After a good ten or fifteen minutes of harassment from all of us we decided to head out. Mr Safety volunteered to take the back of the pack, “so he could be sure that everyone could see us from behind.” We were on the road about 30 minutes when we came to a stop light. The front half of the pack made it through the light and the last couple of guys got stopped at the light. The ones that made it through the light pulled into a parking lot just ahead. After Mr Safety stopped a Ford F250 locked his brakes up, swerved to the left and surgically removed one of the shiny new spot lights from the bake of his bike. No injury to the rider and not damage to any other bike. Of course we saw it so we all shot back to help. The driver of the truck gets out of the trick and immediately apologizes. So I asked how is it he didn’t see the bike stop until it was too late, his response was “he was mesmerized by that F’en helmet and didn’t see the brake lights go on.” Then he follows that up with, if you want people to notice you, why don’t you just get louder pipes like these other guys. Sorry folks, can’t make this up, truth is better than fiction. He offered to pay for the broken light and we were all on our way with no insurance paperwork. So as Dan has stated many, many times, loud pipes are a passive safety feature, they can’t help but hear you. All that high visibility stuff requires the people in the cars to actually be looking where they are going, not always what they are doing…

    Loud Pipes 1, Yellow Gazoo helmets 0…


    LOL…”A hundred dollars…’bout a hundred dollars.”…out of his straight jacket, and back at his spittle covered keyboard…the “Rain Man” returns!

    My goodness!…all that talk about your “loud pipes” is positively making my little pee-pee shrivel, you rebel, you! lol

    As I recall, long ago, I posted a positive, complimentary reply to one of your initial posts. However, when I failed to let you get away with your false statements concerning “loud pipes”, and the “Hurt Report”, you turned mean, and, in typical, lying liberal fashion, what followed was a long litany of name calling, profanity, and hostile personal attacks on me, and other posters…particularly the females…from you.

    So, I, naturally, responded in kind. It seems that, as always, trying to deal civilly with dishonest liberals, is, metaphorically speaking, like trying to polish a turd…no matter how careful you are, it’s an impossible task.

    No, Rain Man, I am not writing a book…although it would certainly be handy for those less knowledgeable and experienced than me, in easily countering the anti American, hate filled, pro anarchy, Saul Alinsky written “The Rules for Radicals” that all you liberals consider “the gospel” and live your lives by…it IS something to consider!

    I wonder if obama’s literary agency, Acton and Dystel, you know, the one that published obama’s “author biography” in 1991 stating that he WAS born in Kenya, and let that fact stand as true for sixteen years…until George Soros, criminal, socialist billionaire, and admitted Nazi collaborator, decided to bankroll the America hating, socialist obama and try to destroy America…THAT literary agency?…Maybe I should check!

    As usual, your bitterness has blinded your admitted liberal thinking, Rain Man…and it’s easy to see that the “nerve” is still raw concerning anything other than total, drooling worship of your messiah, obama, as my mere mention of his Kenyan born family name has set you off again…sounds like you’re off your medication.

    Michael specifically addressed me in his bitter, unfounded, misguided, name calling attacks…kind of like you always do, between reruns of “Judge Wapner”…lol.

    There is nothing “ignorant” about any statements I’ve ever posted here…except for the hateful liberals that get so worked up about them…all are based on facts, personal observations, and actual experience…unlike the false assumptions you, and other liberals…have about any and all riders, and their own stated experiences, who have anything more than “whisper quiet” exhaust systems.

    As far as your charge of my “ignorant assumptions”…let’s examine them…

    #1…I say Michael is a liberal democrat, as easily spotted as you were…based on decades of experience in dealing with hateful liberals, the way they speak, and the bitter contempt they feel, and express, toward ALL others that they disagree with…he doesn’t have to say so, but, as one bitter liberal to another, ask him who he voted for in the last two presidential elections…it will probably warm your shrunken, liberal heart.

    #2…Some liberals are NOW…finally!…voicing concerns about the total failure of ALL the liberal/progressive/socialist policies that they so eagerly…and ignorantly…supported when they so fanatically worshiped the lying, dog eating, muslim charlatan, obama…but it’s too late for them to escape the total blame for the mess that , not only America is in now, but the whole world when it comes to the rise of his fanatical muslim brothers, the murders, rapes, and mutilations they perform…which he has empowered…and the actual threat to all Western, white, Christian societies around the globe.

    YOU, Michael, and all the other blind followers of the misguided, demonstrably failed liberal/progressive/socialist policies of political correctness, multiculturalism, unlimited illegal alien invasions of America, quota systems, etc, promoted by obama, Hillary, the entire dishonest liberal democrat party, and especially the dead, liberal ass bag, Ted Kennedy…among others that you so slavishly idolize…are seeing the “fruits” of your political efforts “ripen”…and they are worm infested, and good for no one.

    The bottom line is…liberals, like you, picked the foreign born obama…deceived the American public about him…overwhelmingly voted for him…the dishonest, lying liberal mass media totally failed to report, or delayed reporting…on his lies, deceptions, corruption, racism, etc, and supported anything and everything that he did…no matter how corrupt, false, or costly the obvious outcomes would be…i.e. Fast and Furious, Benghazi, IRS attacks on conservative groups…obama-care…obama directed invasion of illegal alien “children” into America…executive action “amnesty” for millions of illegal alien mexicans, total support of the “Arab Spring” muslim uprising, which brought the murderous, anti America “Muslim Brotherhood” into power…his deliberate unwillingness to direct American military attention on ISIS and their murderous, mulim fanaticism, etc. The list is nearly endless…and NOW that the total chaos has erupted…chaos that I, and people like me warned about…you say “many liberals don’t like him much”…you’re a liberal…a liar…and a total political fool, Rain Man.

    #3…I did not say, nor have I EVER said, “all liberals hate Harleys and/or loud pipes”…never happened.

    What I DID say…and repeat again…is that ONLY lying, bitter, twisted liberals, like you, Rain Man, and your new found liberal boyfriend, Michael…will not just civilly express their disagreement with someone like me…and others who have posted here…that KNOWS, from actual, road riding experience, that big V-Twin bikes, such as Harleys, Victorys, Big Dogs, etc,, with tuned, free flowing exhausts, actually DO create an added safety factor in the omni-directional, AURAL field of awareness, to supplement the VISUAL, one dimensional element provided by “high visibility” riding gear, modulating headlights, etc, which I totally agree with using, however, ALL those things…as I have repeatedly stated in multiple posts…are ONLY effective IF another vehicle driver actually…ACTIVELY…directs his vision along the line of sight with YOUR motorcycle…tough to do when typing out that all important text!…while the added safety element of “loud pipes” requires NO extra effort from the other drivers at all…it is basically a “passive/aggressive” safety factor that only closed minded, know it all types…always liberals…would even attempt to argue has no additional value to a rider.

    Did I EVER say “all liberals” hate “loud pipes”…I did not…did I ever say NO conservatives hate “loud pipes”…I did not.

    And those “loud pipes”…just like my “divinely melodious” Screamin’ Eagle slip on mufflers…don’t have to be “obnoxiously loud” either, and, in fact, mine fall within the decibel limits set up by more than one of the local, nearby municipal police agencies I have actually had test them.

    Using the horn…Stebel or not…is REACTIVE by a rider, and only occurs once a potential conflict has been initiated…a good idea, naturally, but, that SAME potential conflict could, and probably would, have been avoided with a little extra advanced AURAL warning to the other driver that a motorcycle is near by.

    People that are “conservative” thinkers…you know, REAL Americans, like me…just want to live our lives, and make our own choices, free from the constant, tyrannical thinking and forced compliance of all the misnamed, so called “liberals” in this country. THOSE are the types, whose political ideas invariably FAIL when put on the ballot…yet are continually upheld by ONE dishonest, LIBERAL judge against the will of millions of citizen’s votes. That is the ONLY way liberals can get their dishonest, restrictive, political policies established…and probably accounts for the angry, bitter, hate filled personal attacks liberals…like you and Michael…always include in disagreements with people who don’t think like them…about anything.

    Outing you lying liberal democrats is what you might call “easy peasy”, Rain Man…I’ve been doing it for decades…kind of like the literary character, Professor Van Helsing, and his innate but experienced ability to spot, and dispatch, members of the other branch of that blood sucking vermin family of yours that drains all societies…vampires! lol

    One last thing, Rain Man…you have repeatedly stated that you “can’t be bothered to wade through all the garbage…” that I type.

    Seems to me that…like the other, lying, disease carrying, flying rats that I’m mentioned, you never “miss a drop” of anything I post…dang, Bubba…can’t you liberals EVER tell the truth…about anything?

    Why don’t you wipe the drool off of your chin…ask your mommy for some money…and go buy yourself a Hershey bar…I think they’re only “a hundred dollars…’bout a hundred dollars”…but hurry and get back in time for the next rerun of “Judge Wapner”…I wouldn’t want you to wet your pants.


  • wow,

    dan, are you writing a book here? you need to get out more; way too much time spent writing your drivel.

    and, your ignorant assumptions, once again, are showing.

    ignorant assumption #1:
    – scott is a liberal democrat. maybe he is, and maybe not, but where does scott mention anything about politics?

    ignorant assumption #2:
    – liberals like barack. many (most?) liberals don’t like him much because of his conservative stand on corporations and banks, among other things, but they tolerate him as the “least worst” option they had when at the voting booth in 2008 and 2012.

    ignorant assumption #3:
    – all liberals hate harleys and/or loud pipes. i know arch conservatives that hate harleys. some hate other motorcycles, loud pipes, not-so-loud pipes, etc. i know liberals that like loud pipes. (i fall into this category – liberal and like loud pipes – tho i am not fond of the obnoxiously loud straight pipe bikes. and i personally believe that obnoxiously loud pipes put motorcyclists more at risk which outweigh whatever perceived safety benefits – people simply react negatively to obnoxious, regardless of political stripe.) but there is nothing from any of this that indicates any political leaning, one way or the other. me personally, i dislike cruisers regardless of mfr because i find them boring to ride, plain and simple. i used to recommend harleys to those looking to get into cruising, but i stopped doing that when h-d kicked erik buell to the curb. the bikes i *do* ride are loud, tho not like a straight piped harley. my bevel-drive ducati w/conti pipes is loud. my buell s2 with race exhaust kit is loud. My motard suzuki dr650 w/oversized hedder and open tsukigi can spec’d for a gsxr750 is loud.

    i’m sure there’s more that i missed, but to be honest, i could not be bothered to wade through all the garbage that you type. so narrow, so full of baseless misguided assumptions, so ignorant… go out and disturb the neighbors, dan, and get off the keyboard. ;~)


    LOL…”Duh”?…yeah, I can see you saying that a lot, Michael.

    It seems that you…just as all the other bitter, liberal, anti Harley types who have posted here, have given it your “best shot” about “loud pipes”, as weak and non specific as it is…and, while you all certainly have the right to your own opinions…yet failing to come up with any type of credible argument against the stated experiences of myself, and other posters here, as to the proven…by actual experience…safety factor of those pipes in traffic, now take the standard liberal tactic of continued, personal, and family oriented, mean spirited attacks…which is not only publicly demeaning to your own character, but does nothing to add any credence to your original, weak argument.

    I can also see that you are not an “original thinking” kind of guy. If you have NEVER ridden big V-Twin equipped motorcycles, such as Harleys, Victories, Big Dogs, etc, with freer flowing, tuned exhausts, and seen that they do make other traffic more aware of a motorcycle’s nearby presence…and that does NOT mean it has to be “obnoxiously loud”…then you, like all the other naysayers on this thread, have no practical base of knowledge to compare them with the quieter exhaust equipped motorcycles…now do you?…Duh…THAT’S the “no brainer”.

    I have ridden other, quieter motorcycles for DECADES, and, since owning and riding my Harley’s for the last five seasons, I can definitely state that there IS a difference in driver attention, and spatial awareness of MOST other vehicle drivers when you are near them…it does NOT require “obnoxiously loud” exhausts, either.

    There are several other posters to this thread that have stated their own similar experiences…are we all “knuckle draggers” to your inexperienced, pompous way of thinking?

    You…like most liberals…are operating from an ignorance that you don’t even know you have, yet are too closed minded to even admit the possibility that your attitude…your false assumptions…are wrong.

    It happens a LOT with your type.

    I know that “Knucklehead” Harleys are nicknamed that for the physical shape of their rocker boxes, and resemblance to a human hand in a closed “fist” position…an easily verifiable fact. I also know…by direct observation, a lot of real life “knuckleheads”…which are people of low intelligence or reasoning, even though they may, or may not, have many hours of classroom instruction in some field of study, which you are implying you have…that presume they know much, much more about EVERYTHING than they do. Those are the ghetto rats, illegal aliens, and pompous, self styled “literati”…political liberals all…that gave us the political disaster commonly known as “obama”.

    Knuckle draggers, however, is simply a derisive term applied to anyone who happens to disagree with anything some limp-wristed, snobbish liberal democrat…like you…”thinks” is a good idea…as long as it’s funded by OTHER people’s money of course. Your reference to anyone riding a “Knucklehead”, and by inclusion, any other Harley, as a “knuckle dragger”, although you might think yourself quite clever, shows more of your ignorance, as I ride Harleys, I am very educated, I have more intelligence…about a lot of things…than most I have encountered…very probably higher than you in most things…and I am sure there are many, many more like me, many of them on this very thread…so, DUH…why don’t you cut that “clever wit” you think you have in HALF, and recompute that…it will be a more accurate measure of your reasoning capacity.

    You are wrong…again…in assuming that I “fancy myself as a bit of a literati”, though I see that you are classifying me as such, and I thank you for the compliment, which you seem to think it is, but, that’s something only liberal snobs…such as you… think of themselves as, when they assume their phony air of superiority when it has to do with the mental abilities of anyone who disagrees with them…on anything.

    It is a class of bigoted, ignorant, elitist liberals that only ASSUME they are more intelligent that those around them…most of the time, they are not.

    That unfounded, “superior” attitude of yours is where you whiny liberals get the derogatory phrase “flyover country”, when it come to describing all the Americans that live between the leftist, liberal east and west coasts.

    As far as my genetic makeup, it is quite intact, and, even if I had only one “redeeming chromosome”, that would probably put me one up on you…”Duh”.

    By assuming so much about my ancestry, and whether or not they were, or are, involved in “academia craving pursuits”, you take a lot for granted…and, as usual with people with your attitude, are quite wrong…although, what my…or your…ancestors have achieved academically has no bearing on my…or your…mental abilities at present.

    If you were even remotely as intelligent as you seem to think you are, you would know that.

    As far as breast feeding, yes, I was breast fed, as were my two sisters. You seem to see that as a bad thing, when, again, if you were even remotely as smart as you seem to think you are, you would know that breast fed children tend to be healthier, score higher on many types of tests, tend to do better in their school careers, are more socially adaptable, and are not nearly as sickly or require hospital visits nearly as often as bottle fed babies. I’m surprised that even you don’t know that….can you give me another “DUH!”

    As far as a “life long, sorrowful existence”…you couldn’t be further from the truth. Where do liberal, “know-it-all” people like you get all your wrong ideas? It would seem that you are just another one who has either spent far too much time in a classroom or actually believed the likes of the pompous, liberal, politically correct “professors”, “doctors” (PHD hypocrites), and the other self styled “experts” who continue promoting the failed liberal/progressive/socialist agendas.

    As far as “seeking attention”, I, and the types of men that I spent over two decades serving with, in military operations, special missions, and classified operations, are not the type who seek out “attention”…unlike you whiny liberals that truly DO seek attention to yourself by constantly criticizing, and speaking badly about a country, and those that cherish it’s founders, their wisdom, and defending their guiding principles that offer more freedoms, opportunities, and choices than any other country in history. Your type all tend to be…as you have been in this thread…loud, hostile, overly aggressive, and obnoxious right from the start of any and all conversations, as if YOU know more, or better, than anyone else…and you…just like in this thread…are almost always wrong

    You appear to be flipping a coin, using a Ouija board, or simply guessing to come to your conclusions about me, because they are all…except for the breast feeding…wrong…very wrong.

    I ride Harleys, Victorys, and a Honda…and my Harley is by far my favorite machine. It’s the slowest of the bunch in acceleration…but, to me, it looks good, sounds good, is very comfortable, and I like it. It, nor my other bikes or vehicles were chosen by me to seek attention. I chose each and every one because there is something particular to it that I LIKE…period…your, the guy next door, nor anyone else’s opinion of what I ride or drive is a factor in what I buy.

    Why is that so difficult for you whiny, liberal types to comprehend and accept? Yet, you constantly make false judgements, and come to wrong conclusions, about those of us that choose differently from you.

    As far as wetting the bed…nope…wrong again. However, I DID put baseball cards, and even balloons on my bicycles to make a simulated “motorcycle” noise. Most of my friends did too…some of them…the ones that grew up to be limp-wristed liberals, like you…always needed help with theirs…like I said, liberals always want someone else to do the work or spend THEIR money.

    As far as “patients”…I’m guessing you’re closer to the Jack Nicholson character in “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”…loud and aggressive, always trying to stir up others…than any type of actual “doctor”, or health care professional…but then, who knows.

    Interesting you mentioned Val Kilmer…I like his work, and I think his portrayal of “Doc Holliday” in “Tombstone” is the best of all the actors that I’ve seen play that role. As far as Kilmer’s “mojo”…don’t know about that, but I never lost mine…and I come and go through the front door…unless her husband comes home unexpectedly! lol

    I’m not sure why you’re so intimidated by the sound of big V-Twin engines…why they seem to unnerve you so much…but, now you’ve got me wondering if your mother didn’t shove some bottle with a nipple on it into your mouth, then just drop you off at the local orphanage, and ride off with some “Harley guy”, and the sound of that big V-Twin leaving you caused many developmental issues…and thus the hatred of them…kind of a “Norman Bates” type of thing.

    It would explain a lot…now, go change your own wet sheets, “Doc”.



    Dan, I have no original thoughts about loud pipes because there can BE no original thoughts when it comes this subject. It’s all just a big DUH…..both the sound coming from the rides AND the riders. (Just had a thought that MIGHT be original, though: “How appropriate that knuckleHEADS would be ridden by knuckleDRAGGERS!!”)

    You seem to fancy yourself as a bit of a literati, so I have to imagine that you have at least one redeeming chromosome in your gene pool, and that somewhere in your long line of wannabe or actual academia-craving forebears, you must have been breast-fed by an earth-mother (perhaps even an aunt or a grandmother) who for some reason, unbeknownst to the anthropological community, spurned your Oedipal advances with the unfortunate result that you have been relegated to a lifelong, sorrowful existence of perennial attention seeking and primal yearning for parental love.

    Do you wet your bed by any chance? Or, HAVE you wet your bed? Before or after you used to ride on your tricycle? (Stay with me, here…I’ve traveled this therapeutic path with many other patients……) Did this behaviour continue after graduating to your big-boy pants…..and big-boy bike? Even AFTER you installed your baseball cards in the spokes of the rear wheel….utilizing the classic wooden-clothes-pin-on-swing-arm configuration?

    I almost helped Val Kilmer get his mojo back. I think I can almost help you out, too. Which way did you come in?


    My goodness, more fan mail!

    Michael, I haven’t seen so much random synaptic activity from any liberal, obama butt kissing democrats since the last zombie herd in the season finale of “The Walking Dead”.

    Unfortunately, trying to find even one original thought in your ramblings is like searching for a “lucky coin” at the bottom of a septic tank…even if you found one, it just isn’t worth the effort.

    Since you’ve let your secret out that you see me as “manly” and “cool”, yet “intimating”…because I am…your unhealthy fixation on my over sized penis, while certainly flattering, really should be addressed with some shock therapy…I would suggest starting with 20,000 volts…because I’m just not interested in you girly men.

    Admit it…you’re a homo…now, just go out to the garage and…quietly…French kiss that Stebel horn you’re so fond of.



    Well, DAN……unlike many others on this and similar forums, I’ll give you NO ARGUMENT that loud pipes DO radiate sound in all directions and spread their obnoxious, unnecessary audio poison in a 360 degree pattern. You’re simply CONFIRMING the point that not just people to the front, not just people to the rear……..but people on every radian of the circle are being annoyed by you. You’re pissing off people who aren’t even ON THE ROAD…and pose no more of a threat to your life than did that little old couple trying desperately to enjoy their sunny afternoon in the front yard.

    What riders like you continually fail to realize is that it’s NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!

    If you want to prevent being killed in traffic……by some OTHER idiot (other than you, that is) who is equally unskilled in the art of “staying alive”…..QUIETLY….in traffic, I suggest you become a better rider. That you acquire some defensive, anticipatory, situational-awareness-based skills that will allow you to actually SEE, HEAR, FEEL, ANTICIPATE and RESPOND to what’s going on around you without involving the whole neighbourhood.

    Again, staying alive is YOUR business. Don’t get sleeping babies from blocks away involved in your personal vendetta against Billy Bob who ALMOST clipped you because HE didn’t look and YOU didn’t anticipate.

    I KNOW you want to appear “manly” and sound “intimidating” and look “cool”…..but try donning a hi-viz jacket, keeping your eyes on traffic……and in the off chance that this still doesn’t suffice to keep you out of trouble….break down and buy yourself a Stebel airhorn that will put out the 110 decibel blast you seem to crave…….but only for the second or two it takes to get Bubba to check his rear-view mirrors for you.



    LOL…thirty minutes?…what kind of learning disorder do you have, Bob…other than being a liberal?

    Looks likes someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed yesterday, eh?

    Take another long swig off that giant jug of liberal Kool-Aide…or a couple hits on your crack pipe…whatever it is your using, and take another nap, Bob.

    Dream your kaleidoscopic dreams of silent pipes, unicorns, and the Ebola Ayatollah obama…and wipe the drool off your chin.

    But, for those with a clear mind that might be interested, here’s an old, but related, news story about “loud pipes”…doesn’t “prove” anything…but does show another example of the difference between those that actually “do” and those that merely legislate…because “they know best!”


  • Oh Danny boy the pipes, the pipes, are calling you….Just wanted to let you know that I saw your post, but have not read it and won’t. One only ever needs to read one of your posts to know where you’re coming from. Do me a favor and write another post in response to this one. Waste another another 30 minutes of your time. At least for that 30 minutes you won’t be out disturbing your townsfolk with your LOUD PIPES!

  • Dan – Just wanted to let you know that I saw your post, but have not read it and won’t. One only ever needs to read one of your posts to know where you’re coming from. Do me a favor and write another post in response to this one. Waste another another 30 minutes of your time. At least for that 30 minutes you won’t be out disturbing your townsfolk with your LOUD PIPES!

  • LOL…is that you Doug…or is it Memorex?

    Actually, the answer to your dilemma… the reason you had such difficulty reaching the number “four”… is because, coincidentally, that’s the upper limit of your IQ.

    If you would follow my advice, and pay attention, we could easily skyrocket that number…possibly even reaching double digits….a lofty goal for any liberal, I know, but, under my tutelage, not impossible!

    However, you absolutely MUST go “cold turkey”, place your hand on some stolen Bible, and swear to God to lay off the obama Kool-Aide…and mean it, for God will know what’s really in your heart!… as it will surely drown out any spark of enlightenment before it can turn into embers, in that primordial soup sloshing around inside your semi-empty skull, instead of actual grey matter.

    Now, on to another matter….

    Yesterday, as I wheeled my Harley Night Train…with the Screamin’ Eagle slip on mufflers…through the back roads of the Michigan countryside, enjoying the brilliant fall colors God paints His landscape with this time of year, I observed another example of the 360 degree, omni-directional characteristics of sound waves…easily observable to anyone who simply “observes”.

    As my “iron horse” leisurely galloped along the two lane country black top, I saw an elderly couple up ahead.

    The were sitting side by side in lawn chairs near a small “stand” they had placed in their yard, near the road side.

    The “stand” consisted of a large “beach type” umbrella, and a folding “card table”, upon which there were placed about a dozen “Mason” jars full of some kind of liquid, that they were selling to the public.

    I also observed a “yard sign” indicating their choice of Mark Shauer, democrat candidate for Michigan governor in the upcoming election…a puzzling choice for sure, as our present governor, Republican Rick Snyder has done a very good job improving the state economy…devastated by eight years of democrat party destruction, at the hands of the lying, democrat, Jennifer Granholm…obama lover.

    Anyway, as I neared the elderly couple’s homemade display, within about 200 feet or so, I saw their heads turn in my direction in unison, clearly indicating they had both heard the melodious sound of my iron steed’s “Milwaukee Music”…potato potato potato…as I approached.

    Yet, how could this possibly be?…as all the “Loud pipes save lives” deniers on this thread have continually claimed that ALL the sound emits to the rear…only…and can not possibly be heard by others in front, or to the sides, of any nearby motorcycle?

    Yet, there it was…another example of undeniable, positive proof, of the “Loud pipes save lives” believers claim, that sound does, without a doubt, emanate, forward, aft, above, and below it’s source.

    Continuing along, as I neared their stand, the elderly couple smiled and waved their hands in friendly greeting…again in unison…at me and my “loud pipes” Harley Davidson Night Train.

    As I rolled past them and their display, I waved back to return their friendly gesture, and read their home made, hand painted sign….

    It read….

    “Pure Michigan Honey….and Hershey bars…a hundred dollars…’bout a hundred dollars!”

    NOW, the “Mark Shauer , democrat, for governor” sign made sense!

    I had to smile as I continued on…enjoying the divinely inspired, magnificent colors of a late October day in Michigan’s wonderful countryside.

    Welcome back…”Rain Man”….lol


  • hi tc!

    ya, sure, maybe we can all get along. after the apocalypse? :>) but don’t forget – man has killed (and is *STILL* killing) more men, fighting over who has the best imaginary friend, over all other causes combined. so, since human beings are so stupid that they fight and kill over fairy tales, i wouldn’t hold my breath if i were you… ;~)

  • dan, it’s funny hearing you complaining about others lying, when over 90% of what you post is lies. i guessed i missed a 4th thing about you – unapologetic liar. keep up the good work!


    Well stated, Doug…and  two out of three ain’t bad…proving that you have learned much, and are indeed much smarter than you were…I’m  quite impressed!

    It’s very gratifying to see the spark of enlightenment begin to glow in the skull full of mush of a formerly brain dead liberal.

    See what paying a little attention can do?

    My goodness…you make me feel just like a proud new papa!

    But remember, we must remain ever vigilant against the never ending lies and hypocrisy of all liberals, their “we know best mentality”, and their oppressive, and tyrannical, agenda…  and that our education never ends.

    Now, repeat after me…


    P.S. I don’t blame the constantly lying obama for things like Brussels sprouts…but that fat-assed, America hating Michelle…like all things “obama”… HAS become an expensive, and wasteful, drain on our nation’s budget!

  • i have learned three things about dan from his posts.
    – if dan doesn’t like something, it is bad. period. end of discussion.
    – if dan thinks something is bad, then whoever disagrees w/him must like obama. period end of discussion.
    – if dan thinks something is bad, then no matter what it is, it is obama’s fault. period. end of discussion.


    Yep….I knew it…voted for him twice, didn’t ya’, Bob?  lol

    Actually, the topic of this thread is “Do loud pipes save lives?”…it would seem that the only reasonable, honest answer is, “It’s possible.”…pretty simple, as you and I seem to agree.

    Sorry you “didn’t read” my post, Bob…I was actually trying to be nice and point out that I agreed with much of what you said.

    I do have a question for you though…if you “didn’t read” my post as you claim, where’d all that homina, homina, homina….la la la la …hands over the ears, liberal gibberish come from?…was that in the daily White House talking points all you guys seem to get, ’cause it sure sounds a lot like  Bo Jangles’ standard shuck and jive routine when asked a question about any of the dozen or so scandals he’s behind.

    My goodness…from your stammering, repetitive, rapid fire, multiple postings, and the four hour time lag from first post to last, it sure looks like your panties were twisted into a pretty tight knot there, Bobby…all that without even reading my post, eh?  lol…jeez…don’t you liberal guys EVER tell the truth…about ANYTHING? 

    It’s probably better that you “didn’t read” my post, though, as you say…with such a highly strung, and sensitive nature, if you had, you might have had blood shooting out of your eyes, and could easily be mistaken for another one of obama’s Ebola carriers…or an extra from the TV show, “The Walking Dead”… lol

    Anyway, sorry to ruffle your feathers…come Sunday, just flip on your Ipod…take a big swig of that Kool-Aide…pull up one of your favorite, monotonous,  obama speeches…and drift off to “La La land!”

    Enjoy your nap.


    P.S. If even the Mau Mau decended Kenyan’s repetitive, boring speeches can’t put you to sleep, just imagine that you’re Ron Klain, obama’s new political hack “Ebola Czar”…and, instead of sheep,  imagine counting the 535 MILLION taxpayer dollar bailout money he orchestrated for the bankrupt Solyndra company scam, as part of obama’s phony “stimulus package”, and was a major political payoff to the Kaiser family for their support and campaign contributions bundling for obama…surely you’ll be asleep before you finish that tidy sum!…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

  • Vern – I think you and I are on the same page or at least within the same chapter. Yeah it was my bad mentioning someone I didn’t need to mention. I have gotten the long reply and deleted it before reading. Sorry Dan – my bad. I’m down with whatever makes you happy as long it does infringe upon the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of others. In my case my pursuit of happiness involves a Sunday afternoon nap without having the windows of my house rattled by overly noisy motorcycle pipes.

  • I don’t have nor will I waste my time reading run on nonsense. The topic is motorcycle noise.

  • Dan – I don’t have nor will I waste my time reading your run on nonsense. The topic is motorcycle noise.

  • Dan – Reading just one of your posts is enough of your mindset for a lifetime. I don’t have the time to read your nonsense. Picture me with my hands over my ears and going LA – LA – LA – LA.


    LOL…Bob, you broke the code…but missed the point.

    The topic of this thread…and every post I have made here (except for one or two)…is, and has always been, motorcycle exhaust VOLUME,  as it relates to… possibly… added rider safety,  and what is “too much” volume…sorry if you’ve missed that.

    You might be surprised, since you evidently haven’t paid a lot of attention, but I absolutely agree with your opinion…have from my very first post, and stated it plainly…sorry you missed that too.

    I’ve also worn a helmet for many decades while riding, but am totally against government forced helmet laws…go figure!  lol

    Where we would vastly disagree, and I’ve tried to make that clear also, but it seems, to no avail, is just WHO should decide what is “too loud”.

    I don’t know how it is where you live, but in the three nearest DMV (SOS) offices here in Michigan, all the clerks are plump, middle aged women, with possibly one man working there.  I highly doubt that they ride motorcycles, therefore would have ZERO idea of what is safe for riders and what makes no difference.

    Your DMV may be totally different, and therefore you may have total confidence that they know better than you do, and are happy to let them make your choices for you. I don’t think so,  and  I definitely do NOT want these types of people deciding such issues and making those choices for me, yet that is how laws are sometimes ultimately decided…and is why I have continually used the comparison of people…riders or politicians…who have the same arrogant, “we know best” mentality deciding everything relevant to our lives these days, no matter how incompetent, dishonest, or deliberately destructive of our liberties those riders or politicians may be….i.e. the Kenyan and his ilk.

    I won’t apologize for…in fact I revel in… pointing out the continuing, multiple mistakes and deliberately destructive agenda  of obama, and tying them in with other arrogant, incompetent, anti freedom, liberal bureaucrats who make laws that take our choices in life away, from healthcare, to “Big Gulps”,  to exhaust pipe sound limits…they’re all connected.

    If it bothers you, maybe it’s a sign of a guilty conscience…stop voting for these people..

    As I have stated in previous posts…which I’m sure you are unaware of…I have actually had my motorcycles tested with decibel meters…they fall  within the state law’s limits here in Michigan,  “rattle” no one’s windows, set off no “car alarms”, and fail by almost 50% of even approaching “150 decibels”.

    I have no love for “obnoxiously loud” pipes…and have repeatedly stated that opinion…yet I get the impression from these last two posts, that, somehow, the belief is that that is what I am advocating.  That’s wrong. 

    However, I would much prefer having to put up with that one lone, occasional sociopath blasting through the night with “loud pipes” from time to time,  as there are already other, more appropriate measures to deal with those types, than having incompetent, non bike riding, dishonest politicians or their appointed lapdog bureaucrats deciding that every bike, from moped to Boss Hoss, be required to emit no more than 80 decibels from their exhausts as measured from fifty feet away…about the same sound level as the average home vacuum cleaner….but hey, I’m a freedom loving American, riding a Harley and a Victory V-Twin…just call me crazy.

    My apologies if my lack of “succinct-ness” may be a bit  challenging for some readers, but hey, think of reading my posts, not merely for the  “destination” you reach…but come along for the journey…it’s what motorcycles are all about anyway…enjoy the ride!  Remember, no one is forcing anyone here to follow along without taking breaks, stretching their legs, or getting a drink of water…and it is usually required to be a bit detailed when explaining ones position in a reply, to show just “why” the feeling is strong, and make the message clear.

    Far too many freedom lovers, for far too many years, have remained silent in the face of the constant assault on our liberties by the dishonest, oppressive, liberal agenda.

    If anyone prefers a blank page, those are certainly available with just a “click”…and I hear QVC or MSNBC can be quite “interesting”, and since their prime time liberal viewership has now dropped below 125,000…even lower than the totally dishonest, politically partisan CNN…I’m sure you’ll be welcomed there…in a liberal democrat, frontal-lobotomy-patient sort of way.

    And, one last thing…the difference between “hate and despise”…

    I “HATE” the smell of Brussel sprouts cooking…and the mendacity of the entire liberal political agenda as they seek to control every aspect of the lives of all Americans “from the cradle to the grave”.

    I “DESPISE” any arrogant charlatan, whether born in America, like Hillary, or Africa, like obama, because they always act as if “they know better” than anyone else…and they never do, yet if foolishly given political control, they ram through tyrannical legislation over the will of the overwhelmingly vast majority of Americans, ala, obama-care, and make political decisions in matters of American’s safety, as in  obama’s coming total amnesty for all illegal mexican criminals…or obama’s no flight ban to help stop the spread of Ebola to America.

    They ruin lives and get people killed,  and obama…who has brought America multiple muslim terrorist attacks, and a muslim beheading, while refusing to label them muslim terrorist attacks, and last night, the fourth case of the deadly Ebola virus, with exposure to dozens, or even hundreds of New Yorkers,  due to his repeated, and dangerous,  failure to ban flights from western Africa, risking the lives of a nation… as the totally dishonest leader of that corrupt, anti American group of people, known as the liberal democrat party,  is destroying this country and everything it stands for.

    Look closely at the examples…there’s a difference.

    Is obama’s radical thinking and oppressive agenda, and the “we know best”…”you don’t know how to ride”…”you’re a jerk”  mentality of the “anti loud pipes” crowd one and the same?…is the Pope Catholic?


  • Bob, you realize of course that you have now let yourself in for a very long answer from at least one of our resident critics on here. You comments concerning the volume of bikes in the night rattling windows (and setting off car alarms, which you didn’t mention) is one of my pet peeves too. I ride a Harley but it, as with the Skyline Drive bikes you described, is set up for touring, not road racing. It has a nice rumble but won’t make any ears bleed. I don’t really believe that setting up a bike to exceed 150 db (even though YES they will hear you coming) is in anyone’s best interest. That kind of sound will draw everyone’s attention (including cops enforcing noise laws) and, since most non-riders paint us all with a broad brush, will cause more more people to want more and more laws to restrict what we riders love to do. Do loud pipes save lives? In some circumstances I suppose so, but overly loud pipes also cause problems. That’s my opinion. Everyone else is welcome to theirs.

  • OK Dan…we get your point. You hate our current president and whatever the topic may be you are going to involve him. If I may, I’d like to discuss the topic which is motorcycle exhaust volume levels.

    Yes, I do think that a certain level of volume does alert other drivers that a vehicle is coming, but how much is too much? I was recently riding on the Skyline Drive in VA. and I could hear some bikes coming in the distance. I’d say that I could hear them about 1/2 mile away. It was a low rumble. When they did pass me it was a louder low rumble, but it did not pierce eardrums and rattle items nearby. The bikes were Harleys and were set up for long hauls and not just short jaunts around town. I can live with that level of volume. What I cannot live with is excessive noise that rattles the windows in my home and wake me in the middle of the night as bikes pass. I would like to see my state DMV determine and put a cap on just how much noise is sufficient.
    In addition (and I’m sure this will get Dan’s motor revving) if bikers are so concerned with safety why don’t more of them wear helmets and protective gear. I see tons of bikers on all kinds of bikes wearing shorts, tee shirts and sneakers. No helmets, no gloves no jackets. You fall off a bike (even at the slowest speed) in shorts and a tee shirt and you’re going to look like raw hamburger.


    LOL…Yeah, Vern, we both know that’ll work!

    Unfortunately, the Kingfish doesn’t return my calls anymore since I stopped letting him cheat on his score card…but you KNOW things are WAY out of control when the “Messiah” cancels a fund raiser!

    My examples are meant to show people the ominous CONNECTION…and politics… between the closed-minded attitudes of some people in all types of situations, why those arrogant attitudes are invariable wrong, and even deadly, and why common sense should always be factored in to all our decisions..i.e..riding motorcycles…voting…healthcare…the “global warming” scam…
    pushing a dishonest political agenda at the cost of human lives…basically, everything.

    “Tom” may disagree with my opinion on “loud pipes” ever…possibly… adding another safety factor when riding, but he has the decency to let me make my own choice, as it should be…many others do not.

    You can’t change a charlatan like obama, or his dishonest, liberal zealot lapdog, CDC director, Tom Frieden, whose previous “claim to fame”, along with the gun hating Bloomberg, is heading up a cigarette tax increase/trans fat campaign while head of the New York health department.

    Frieden, although he worked with tuberculosis patients, is no more an “ebola expert” than obama was a “law professor”…and you can clearly show  others why “his”(really obama’s) line of arrogant, “I know best” thinking, is not just bad for us all, it’s downright dangerous, as is being proven in Dallas, and wherever else it shows up…i.e. “Fast and Furious”, Benghazi, etc…it gets people killed.

    Some people might not easily recognize it, but,  whether it’s “no loud pipes”, “no Big Gulps”, or “no flight ban”, that same arrogant, “know it all”  attitude is always there…and in this instance, it all comes from the very same man…obama…and it shows why putting agenda driven zealots in positions of power, such as Eric Holder, Kathleen Sebelius, Lois Learner, Tom Frieden, etc, instead of honest, experienced, truly qualified people, ALWAYS results in failure, injuries, deaths, and extremely bad results…always!

    That is why Jefferson said, basically, “when it comes to power, put no confidence in man…bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution”….something our government has lost total control over concerning obama…’cause he’s a negro, ya’ know!  lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!…and so do quarantines…it’s common sense.

    P.S. Watch the video of nurse Vinson boarding the aircraft to go get treatment in Atlanta…notice the guy with the clip board…NO HAZMAT SUIT!…proof…AGAIN…that these people, the CDC, Tom Frieden, and obama,  do NOT know what their doing!

    Still… no flight ban.


  • You have some good points, Dan, but shouldn’t you send them to the White House and the CDC rather than to us? Sure, the Secret Service will probably call on you to make sure you’re not a right-wing, armed nut case (as most democrats paint us all to be), but sending your thoughts to them rather than us will let them know your feelings on the matter. I’m guessing Obama doesn’t read this web site. It doesn’t relate to golf after all.


    “I’ll stand by safe (and trained) motorcyclists.”

    “Safe and trained”…in her case it’s doctors, but yeah, that’s probably what the Dallas nurse, Nina Pham, thought too. 

    “Safe and trained” is good, to a point.  Unfortunately, it often leads to a closed minded arrogance of “we know best”, with no room for others’ ideas or opinions…or common sense.

    Concerning the debate on “loud pipes”…maybe…adding even a slight element of safety, that possibility is often arrogantly  dismissed with statements such as “You don’t know how to ride”, or a very “succint” ‘Nope”…with not even a hint of doubt as to the possibility that the speaker might be wrong.

    But relying solely on “known” science or “training”,  and ignoring common sense and personal experience…such as the possibility…no matter how remote…that some driver just MIGHT hear your bike even though you might not be in their line of sight…. is always dangerous.

    In Dallas, nurse Nina is probably wondering why Thomas Duncan, the dead ebola victim she cared for,  was even allowed into the country by obama and those “safe and trained” people of the CDC in the first place…common sense would have kept him out…and totally avoided this tragedy.

    Arrogant “safe and trained” experts are almost never completely right, as they always claim to be,  usually resulting in some tragedy leading to the death of others,  for which they will never admit their responsibility, always ending in something like “Mistakes were made”…”We’re ‘rethinking’ our procedures”, “I accept full responsibility”, “The buck stops here”, or, ultimately, “What difference does it make now?”…yet they’re never fired, prosecuted, go to jail, and almost never even resign. while the…very preventable… body count rises.

    Meanwhile, open minded common sense is never wrong, because it “errs” on the side of safety.

    Are “loud pipes” safer in some instances?…experience has shown me yes…yes they are.

    When I ride I want the added option of any safety “edge” available (just as stopping flights from west Africa until the ebola epidemic is over would be…common sense),  that’s all I’m saying,

    Unfortunately, concerning the public health issue, one man’s arrogance, inflated ego, total reliance on dishonest “safe and trained” experts…and close mindedness to the horrific possibilities of his mistake…and yes, even racism, may cost that young nurse her life…and put our entire nation at risk.

    Meanwhile, the arrogant, dishonest, “safe and trained” CDC “experts” are “rethinking” their faulty procedures, while never admitting that had they prevented the ebola infected Thomas Duncan from entering this country in the first place with a flight ban…common sense… this tremendously dangerous…and expensive to treat…health threat, would not even be here.

    I relate these two seemingly “not related” examples to point out the similarity of pomposity…and fallacy of thought…of all those that have an inflated, arrogant opinion of themselves as having all the answers…to everything from motorcycling to preventing preventable health tragedies. 

    They never do, and we all should decide for ourselves using them as a “guideline” for sure, but never…never…throw common sense out the window.

    However, while we hold differing opinions on the potential safety possibilities of…maybe…being heard while not seen when sharing the road with other vehicles as we ride,  I do appreciate your benign acknowledgement of mine.

    Ride safe.


    P.S.  As I write this, it is being reported that another health care worker in Dallas…in addition to nurse Nina Pham…has been confirmed to have ebola.

    Still no flight ban…still no common sense..

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