THE DEBATE GOES ON. I’ve never struggled so much to write a motorcycle article as I have with this one. A reader challenged me to enter the discussion about loud pipes earlier this year. At the time, I thought it an easy endeavor because I had my own years of experience and opinion on the matter.
However, I made a mistake: I decided to research the matter. And in the process, my opinion has been somewhat modified.
The Search for Evidence: “Loud Pipes Save Lives”
As you, too, might be inclined to do when seeking more info on a subject, I did an Internet search for “Loud Pipes Save Lives” and read through numerous articles at the top of the search results and much lower in the results.
What I came away with was less certainty on the subject than when I started. And more so than any time before, I recognized that truth can be illusive.
Now I don’t know if my personal experience is typical, or atypical, but I did ride for years with high-performance (and loud), exhaust pipes – when I was much younger. To this day, I don’t know how my ears survived. (Well, the fact is, now that I’m considerably more mature, the question of how well they survived is just as murky as my research on the matter of whether loud pipes save lives, or not.)
Although it appears my hearing is not as good as it used to be, how much of that is due to loud pipes or lots and lots of very loud concerts and very loud music blasting through headphones is difficult to discern. I’m sure it’s safe to say that neither supported long-term optimal hearing. (I only started wearing ear plugs while riding several years ago).
Loud Pipes Are Impractical For Long-Distance Touring
My first coast-to-coast motorcycle trip was on a motorbike with a high-performance, non-stock exhaust system that did not endear the neighbors to my notion of a spirited form of transportation. Although I’ve ridden coast-to-coast across North America a number of times since, I recall that first trip as a highlight of my life. And although I could discourse about the virtues of that summer adventure, in the early 80’s, for hours on end, one thing that I realized without any advice, feedback or suggestions from anyone else, was that loud pipes made for uncomfortable long-distance riding (and also that I would be switching from chain-drive to shaft-drive motorbikes for touring).
Personally, I don’t like loud pipes. As much as I love each and every kind of motorcycle, the only ones that diminish my enthusiasm for the brotherhood are those that disrupt the neighborhood harmony by announcing their every breath coming and going.
So, here I am, a long-distance, mature rider, with hundreds of thousands of miles of motorbike experience, who “used” to ride with loud pipes, and who has not liked them for years, and who is philosophically opposed to them due to their inherent and ongoing damage to the motorsport in the way they impinge on the lives of those non-riders whom are adversely effected by the noise pollution of their very existence. Hence, wouldn’t you think I’d be a vociferous opponent of the same?
Which brings me to the point of the first paragraph. I was already aware of the lack of real evidence that supports the concept that “loud pipes save lives.”
But lo and behold, my research did find anecdotal reports that extol the virtues of loud pipes.
The Truth, or Not?
So, what is the truth?
Are those riders who state that loud pipes “have” saved their lives just plain wrong?
What my research did “not” do is change my perspective on whether I, personally, will integrate loud pipes back into my riding: I won’t. In fact, in the future, I will likely include an electric motorcycle (which are practically silent), within a stable of riding choices.
However, what has resulted from my research regarding loud pipes is a softening of my perspective. Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals.
Even so, such does not address the rights of others to “not” be subjected to the noise of loud motorcycle exhaust systems.
In conclusion, although I am not an advocate for loud pipes, and even though I disagree with the use of the most obnoxious ones, and even though there is no hard evidence in support of their use as a safety catalyst, and even though the loudest pipes do damage to the overall public perception of motorcycling, I respect that there have been “some” quantity of riders (however large or small), who are still riding, purportedly as a result of loud pipes. Which has caused me to re-evaluate their application.
Better yet, what do YOU consider is the truth? Do loud motorcycle pipes save lives?
753 Comments
Dan · July 9, 2012 at 6:16 am
Hmmm…I’m not quite sure how my little “joke” about the painted exhaust pipes proved your point, Roy, but okay….if you say so. (although the mileage stats ARE true. )
And, you are very wrong if you don’t realize that EVERYTHING is political these days, left/right, liberal/conservative, freedom stealing/freedom loving…everything! When the Clintons came to Washington, back in 1992, didn’t you ever notice how, suddenly, there was a “crisis” that simply HAD to be dealt with…..EVERY SINGLE WEEK?…..it was always “we HAVE to pass this law, or that law, “FOR THE CHILDREN”….a typical liberal trick to make ANOTHER tax, for yet ANOTHER social program, SEEM like it was a real necessity, or our society was just going to “die”….did you miss all that stuff, or what? I remember quite well, the very “wooden” Al Gore, waving his arms around like Pinocchio, and raising his voice, even going into black churches and trying to sound like some Southern Baptist minister at a tent revival with his phony pleas, about the social security “lockbox”….Florida being “underwater in 10 years” (hmmm…it’s still floating after TWENTY YEARS, isn’t it, Roy? ), if we just don’t DO something and tax ( a carbon tax will do ) those dirty energy companies….and Hillary’s statement that “if it moves we tax it, if it DOESN’T move, we tax it TWICE”!….and this total grab for ALL the political power is going on again today with obama, and the liberal democrats….ever hear of obama-care?….wait until THAT monstrosity kicks in in 2014 and see just how much more things will cost all of us…and the liberals are feverishly working on…and obama HAS given… the Gestapo-like EPA a death grip on all of America’s energy producing industries….more and more POWER for the liberals to control “WE the people”….they LIVE for that…more and more power over all our lives.
So, yes, it IS about money, but, in the end, it is far broader with liberals….it is about CONTROL, in everything we do….they simply want ALL the control, and to make everyone be dependent on the government….THEM….for whatever we might want to do….helmet laws, seat belt laws, bicycle and skateboard helmet laws, ORV tax laws, etc…and yes, even the “Twinkie Tax” law of California, which the LIBERAL actor, Rob Reiner convinced the liberal politicians to pass out there….you could still EAT Twinkies, you just had to get government approval….THEIR approval….to buy them, by paying a tax….which IS money, BUT the broader restriction to OUR freedoms is that we must come to them, pay the tax, and then THEY will decide whether or not THEY will allow the behavior…i.e. smoking…they don’t have enough integrity…ANY for that matter…to simply outlaw tobacco, but they tax the crap out of it, THEN tell the people that CHOOSE to use it, where, and when, they can actually smoke the legally acquired, legally grown, LEGAL product….the liberals simply LOVE having that much control over OTHER PEOPLE’S LIVES!
The motorcycle noise issue is the same thing. While I AGREE (again! ) that an upper limit is a GOOD idea, the major fear is that, giving that control to a power hungry bunch of liberal politicians is the proverbial “camel’s nose under the tent”, and ALWAYS leads to a negative outcome, loss of freedom, and even MORE money out of American’s pockets.
Here in Michigan, the state government recently rescinded the helmet laws. It is no longer a requirement to have to wear a helmet to ride a motorcycle….BUT, the liberals did not let go without a fight….you MUST buy MORE insurance to NOT wear a helmet when you ride…true, it IS more money (for the democrat cronies in the insurance companies), but, the BROADER issue is the liberal political grip they maintained on the rider…MORE control. Now, I personally have always worn a helmet, think it is a wise, common sense safety precaution to use, BUT, I have been, and will always be, against laws that infringe on the individual’s right to choose for themselves, and give Gestapo-like power to the LIBERAL politicians over the lives of Americans, whether it’s a helmet law, seat belt law, no smoking law, “Twinkie Tax” law, etc, etc, etc.
Getting back to the theme of this thread, MORE noise from a motorcycle exhaust, in itself, does NOT necessarily mean more power from the motor, unless it is done in an educated manner of tuning, with the appropriate adjustments to other air/fuel mixture systems. But, for the posters on this thread….all liberals I am sure….that deny that a freer flowing exhaust, tuned correctly, does NOT improve the performance of a Harley Davidson….or any other motor, for that matter…..they are simply wrong, and the claim that, because the exhaust exits to the rear of the bike, no vehicle drivers AHEAD of the bike will hear it, is simply another WRONG theory on their part. While it’s true, that there IS a “Doppler Effect” of sound waves, anyone that would deny that a quick “blip” on a throttle, to “sound” the pipes has NO effect on drivers AHEAD of the motorcycle simply needs to take a ride….or even ride behind a “friend” (do liberals have any Harley riding friends? ) and have them demonstrate the easily proven FACT that vehicles AHEAD of the motorcycle CAN hear the noise….I see it every day that I ride, and, I’m sure, other Harley riders do too, and would …and have, in this very thread….verify that FACT….but, the liberals on here simply call us one derogatory name after another….a common liberal affliction to anyone who disagrees with them…especially when they can be easily proven wrong….it’s unsettling, and intimidating to them when they KNOW they are wrong, and simply do not want to be challenged.
To the issue of “Do loud pipes save lives?”, it is impossible to prove a “negative”…i.e. I have “loud” pipes ( according to you and other liberals, but NOT to the people, including actual police officers that I have had listen to them ), and I AM alive, and have been riding motorcycles, both “quiet” and “loud” for forty nine years….is it “all” attributable to “loud pipes”…no….experience, common sense, thinking ahead to “how is this next car going to try to kill me”, and being alert to my surroundings are ALL part of the reason. BUT, “loud” pipes DO help, and while I would have them….whether I lived in the isolated northern woods of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, or the scorched earth of the desert of Arizona,
because I LIKE the sound of a big motorcycle engine running…it pleases me….and to those liberals that say us Harley riders do it “to get attention” or, that we have some kind of “image problem”, a “sexual inadequacy”, or some other made up, derogatory, liberal label, I would say, why don’t YOU stay in your air conditioned house, roll your car windows up and turn on the a/c, and stereo in your car, and try not to obsess on the fact that there are MILLIONS of us “out there” that enjoy motorcycling, and all the sights and SOUNDS that come along with it.
And Roy, I DO get it, and despite your continued denials, I think you actually prove MY point….everything IS political….by your constant references to “voters taking away my noise maker”, and “the muffler will not vote”….what IS “voting” if not a POLITICAL action?
As to, in the future, a “speaker” being used to “save lives”….HUH?….how could THAT possibly work, IF loud pipes don’t do that very thing?…..unless it played some recording of the arrogant, liberal gas bag, obama, saying “Let me make this perfectly clear”, again as he lies yet one more time…..that would surely be more obnoxious than ANY loud exhaust pipe to all except radical liberals.
And to your final (now WHY do I doubt that? ), whimsical remark about electric bikes being quiet and what I’ll tell the kiddies…..I’ll tell them to buy the ones with SPOKED WHEELS ( that is, if you liberals haven’t outlawed THEM, too )….then, I’ll show them the old, All American trick of putting a playing card into the spokes and attaching it with a clothes pin, to sound “just like a Harley”……and drive you liberals WILD….again….LOL
Happy trails, Roy.
roy · July 8, 2012 at 12:17 pm
thanks for proving my point dan …you just do not get it..it has to be right left with you .. on everything even some crappy muffler issue .. ITS ALL A JOKE ..your the one who is ranting ..lib vs consv …who cares its about some round medal on the end of a pipe …the muffler will not vote….your so worked up because the voters are taking away you noise maker … oh well rant on them .. there is more of them then us .. we loose .. don’t hold your breath its not going to change …it has nothing to do with left-right or even loud ..its about $$$$$$$$$ …they have the guns the men in black….enjoy the cosmic joke …remember the good old days in years to come , standing around the electric bike telling the kiddys how it was and you could make people deaf with a h.d. and how much fun it was …and since electric bikes will make no noise a speaker with sound will be played to save lives..
Dan · July 7, 2012 at 6:12 am
LOL….”lighten up….smile….chill…take a breath…” you advise me, Roy…but, .let me get this straight.
.
I went back and checked out when this thread actually started….it was November of 2009…then I looked to see when YOUR first post was added….it was April of 2011, over a year ago, and still you continue…..what’s the matter?….all out of “chill pills” down in Daytona? LOL
Your first post was easy going, and non aggressive….as was your second post, basically…but then, in June of 2011 your “liberal juices” started to flow…and you started on your “ranting” posts….name calling, demonizing Harley riders, attacking, or at least agreeing with those who insulted the masculinity of Harley drivers, because they actually ENJOY the sound of a large V-Twin rumble….even agreeing with the ones who justified some irate auto driver killing a biker with his car because he was “upset” with the loud noise of SOME bikers…..but I’M the one that is supposed to “smile, chill, breathe”, etc….that is the same kind of hypocritical “advice” the arrogant wind bag, obama, gave to conservatives just prior to the congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords getting shot, then trying to lay the blame on some political ad of Sarah Palin’s…..only to find out the gunman was a registered democrat….in other words, a liberal.
Now, I simply added my initial post to say that I find the “All American” sound of a big Harley motor to be pleasant….have since my favorite uncle won a guy’s Harley in a poker game, and threw me on the back…kicked that great sounding, mellow engine to life, and gave me my first ride on a motorcycle when I was eight years old…and it was a HARLEY ” FREAKIN’ DAVIDSON! LOL
I said from the beginning….THERE ARE SOME OBNOXIOUSLY LOUD EXHAUSTS ON THE ROAD…..and I don’t like them….and I agree that there are differing opinions on just how “loud” a bike can be….no problem there….what I DO disagree with, is the oppressive
attitudes of the people ( almost to a man, political LIBERALS ) that simply say “stock pipes are loud enough”….oh, really?….says who?….and THOSE types of people that are constantly belittling other bikers who choose to have a somewhat louder than stock exhaust on their bikes….like my Screamin’ Eagle slip on MUFFLERS ( notice I said MUFFLERS? ), but NOT the “short shot”, NO muffler type of pipes….by the way, for those uninitiated liberals, “Screamin’ Eagle” is simply a brand name…it has nothing to do with any particular sound level….unless you think that a “Screamin’ Eagle” air cleaner cover is a sure fire “give-away” of a “small penis, look-at-me, jackass, moron, idiot”, etc, or any of the other names the LIBERAL posters have chosen to defame us Harley riders with.
So, I will state again….I acknowledge the opinions of those who like “whisper quiet” exhausts on motorcycles, and I thank them…in my pleasant dreams of “rippin'” around on my Night Train, enjoying the melodic rumble….each night around 2am…LOL…but, I will always fight that overly aggressive, oppressive, choice stealing mentality that thinks that there needs to be another law for absolutely every aspect of our lives….as in those that don’t see the danger of the oppressive monstrosity called “obama-care”…..same attitude.
If you care to go back and read the posts, it is THOSE types of posters that are always calling others derogatory names, and belittling them for THEIR CHOICE, because it disagrees with the “liberal” posters opinion….that is almost always the case.
So, while I will add…once again…there are exhaust pipes that, in MY opinion, are too loud, I am NOT of the liberal mindset that insists that we need ANOTHER law to handle this issue….though, I acknowledge and agree that there are plenty of liberal types that are diligently working on it so that everyone else has to go along with THEIR opinion….they’re liberals, that’s what they LIVE for!
There was a female poster, quite a ways back, and she stated that she liked the sound of the louder pipes, and that, in HER opinion, it was all part of the attraction of riding a motorcycle…..it was a nice, polite, honest statement of HER feelings….and I thank her for it, and totally agree with her….I simply like the sound…period.
My opinion is, ride what you want, and let the rest of us do the same.
P.S. One liberal poster made reference to Harley riders thinking that black exhaust pipes might give us “more power, or be faster”…SO….guess what?….I masked off my engine, and painted my chrome exhaust pipes….even the Screamin’ Eagle mufflers….flat black….kind of goes along with the Night Train “blacked out look”.
Damned if the “Train” didn’t seem to have a bit MORE power, was definitely FASTER, and, unbelievably….I went 251 miles on 4.3 gallons of gas!….my highest mileage to date!….who would have “thunk it”? LOL
roy · July 6, 2012 at 7:28 pm
CHRIST DAN its all a joke lighten up,left-right man oh man ..smile dude..its just a muffler.where would you go if i said bright lights save lives…chill, easy..take a breath in goes the good air out goes the loud bad air …not all is .oh hell you will never get it ..
Joe K · July 6, 2012 at 9:39 am
Lon,
I hope you don’t mind if I translate some of your comments about the definition of “liberal”
“LIBERAL – broad-minded; (lots of wide open space in a mind like that) especially: not bound by authoritarianism, (most especially anything the Bible might have to say) orthodoxy, (down with the establishment) or traditional forms (real men admit they’re gay, and are proud of their pink shirts”
LIBERALISM – theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard (Ron Paul is a liberal?) (No way to translate that. It’s a lie. LOL)
– political philosophy based on belief in progress, (this is why more and more liberals are calling themselves “progressive”… although conventional wisdom of most Americans will tell you that we are moving progressively toward hell in a hand basket) the essential goodness of the human race, (accept of course any one who believes in the goodness of God, his Bible, Heaven, Hell, a future state of rewards and punishment, and anything as mundane and out dated as right and wrong) and the autonomy of the individual (Absolutely …. We don’t need no God, no Bible and no stinking constitution LOL) – and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties. (ACLU = American Communist Lawyers Union)
Just having a little fun, Lon. Don’t take it personally. I just had to wonder if you got your definitions from Daniel Websters dictionary, or Karl Marx’s dictionary. LOL
Actually, todays liberal is not at all what a liberal once was in America. In 1776, it was the liberals who wanted to break away from the King of England. In 1864, it was the liberals who were opposed to slavery. Today. Today, liberals are opposed to anything that violates the right of the state to tell others how to live. I mean, we don’t want Christians telling others how to live, that’s the states job, right? Todays liberals are masters of guilt transference. Example: If you are gay and love your pink shirts, you are a righteous manly man and if you believe a man is a man, a woman is a woman and God created them to fill specific needs for one another, you’re just a mean spirited, homophobic thug hypocrite who probably loves to beat up little gay boys on Saturday night, primarily by beating them senseless with a hard back Bible which you keep behind the seat of your pick up truck, right under your gun rack.
My favorite quote concerning liberals: If you are not liberal when you are 25, it’s because you have no heart and if you’re not conservative when you are 50, it’s because you have no brains ~ Winston Churchill.
Don’t hit me, Lon, not looking for a protracted argument, just having a little fun 🙂
Joe K · July 6, 2012 at 9:16 am
Dan,
you are a man after my own heart, long winded as you evidently are (this is not an insult, any one who knows me would say the same about me LOL) .
If you liked my “amazingly accurate evaluation of the liberal mentality”, you’re gonna love this one. But, you’re gonna have to look it up 🙂 Get your Bible, see Ecclesiastes Chapter 10, Verse 2
Have a nice laugh. 🙂
Vern Rosa · July 6, 2012 at 8:14 am
LON, while I like the way your definition of liberal sounds, and I think I fit into THAT definition of the word, I just can’t get beyond the way “liberal” has devolved to the name calling, deceit-filled, double standard bastardization it has become. It has seven letters, but should be considered a four-letter word. I don’t like overly loud pipes. If the sound still hurts my ears after the bike has passed by and is blocks away, THAT is too loud. My 2011 Harley Ultra Classic, on the other hand, has a pleasant rumble to it that is in no way offensive except to liberals who think one Harley is just like every other Harley.
Lon · July 6, 2012 at 7:23 am
Easy Big Fella. Time (again) Dan for you to take some “quiet time” and make some more C02 for Big Al.
As you ride through the warm summer breeze, lazily re-consider what I said back on June 25th: by the dictionary definitions, YOU are a Liberal and so am I. But many of those you debate are not. Be proud to be a Liberal.
LIBERAL – broad-minded; especially: not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
LIBERALISM – theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard (Ron Paul is a liberal?)
– political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual – and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties.
Dan · July 6, 2012 at 6:59 am
LOL….my goodness!….this is great stuff!….excuse me while I put on my “nor’easter slicker” to ward off all the free flying SPITTLE from those rabid, LIBERAL , “we gotta have a law for this!”, posters!….
I feel a bit like Joe Liberman…former LIBERAL member of the democrat party….until he had the audacity to agree with President Bush’s policy concerning Iraq….then, as usual with LIBERAL democrats when confronted with someone who simply disagrees with the “mainstream” leftist policies, it was “under the bus with you ‘Traitor Joe’….and they actually wouldn’t even support his re-election, and even tried to sabotage his campaign…which didn’t work, and he was re-elected….as an INDEPENDENT! LOL
I’m feeling pretty laid back this morning, so I will only post a couple of “lukewarm” comments, which, given the current trend of extreme LIBERAL comments might be enough to keep the vitriol flowing….which is very entertaining….but, if a more “heated” reply from me is warranted, then I am most willing to comply…..as I will never shirk my duty to stand up to any liberal, freedom stealing, power grab from the political left.
Again, I will state for those who become livid at the very idea that there are those who disagree with THEIR idea of just what is “acceptable” as far as the noise emanating from a motorcycle exhaust pipe. I do NOT like the “very loud”…even “obnoxiously” loud, noise from SOME of the motorcycle exhausts presently available. However, in MY personal experience, the people that choose to use those exhausts are a small percentage of all riders, and, GIVEN THE CHOICE, of having to put up with THOSE riders, and NOT having a choice as to a slightly louder, freer flowing exhaust, on MY Harley Davidson, Night Train, then, I will ALWAYS choose the CONSERVATIVE, “I’ll live my life, you live yours” path to the “pursuit of happiness” as those wise old white guys wrote into our sacred Constitution…..knowing that they simply could NOT trust government, and those that would constantly find ways to attack, steal, or simply take away ANY rights that were NOT spelled out as “guaranteed”…..in other words, “the ends justify the means” liberal mentality of passing a law restricting EVERYTHING they don’t like.
Here are just a few more direct comments to my fellow LIBERAL bikers….
To Guy:…You’re right…if you don’t understand the freedom of choice, and that I think my Screamin’ Eagle exhaust sounds good, on your own, then it simply can not be explained to you….also, you are taking liberties with the truth…a common liberal affliction… when you state that I think that my “Screamin’ Eagle” exhaust …” is NOT “too loudâ€, while being ABOVE the “normal†stock exhaust system to validate his breaking the law of the land.”…Yes, my exhaust is “one step” above the normal stock exhaust noise level…but, NOT ONE police officer that I have actually had listen to my exhaust….FOUR city police officers, from DIFFERENT cities, and one Michigan State Trooper…. has stated that it IS too loud, or that any other police officer would have a problem with the noise….it is simply NOT an issue….so, your statement, as is most often the case with LIBERALS….is simply wrong….yet, you choose to label me a law breaker….that is another LIBERAL tactic to demonize an opponent on the other side of a debate, and accuse them….falsely….of doing something “wrong” or “illegal”….cheap, tawdry, and easily proven incorrect.
To Joe K….YOUR CHOICE to change the Kawasaki back to the quieter pipes is laudable, and I totally understand….the KEY words being “YOUR CHOICE”….I too, would NOT want to run MY engine at such an early hour, if I knew that my neighbors where affected negatively by the noise…but, that’s just the kind of guys we are. LOL…also, it appears you ‘ve made an amazingly accurate evaluation of the liberal mentality….well done! LOL
And, lastly….Roy….I know you claimed to be “to the right of Attila the Hun”, but clearly, that is an inaccurate description of where your political leaning truly are….as it only took thirteen minutes for you to change your mind from “leave me out of this….I’m turning deaf ears to this”….to “sorry…no wait…I can not”….which shows the mental attention span of the liberal mind…admittedly, yours is longer than most, as I’ve seen obama “switch gears” in mid sentence….is that a goal you aspire to? LOL
Anyway guys….keep the name calling, wild semi-rants, and freedom restricting ideas for more and more laws, and even helmets for car drivers, coming….with the life long “venom filled” liberal attacks I’ve faced all my life, I have acquired a very high tolerance to it, and simply find amusement in debating the half baked ideas and exposing the freedom grabbing intentions of the ALWAYS liberal mentality of “we gotta pass a law against this”!…LOL
roy · July 6, 2012 at 4:52 am
i go for all car drivers must wear helmets, with built in speakers and mike for i-phones, radio, and to save more lives car pipes cut off just under the front and face foward so the motorcycles can hear the cars coming…then every one would be safe ….bikers who wear no helmets should hear that ..” the quiet muffler for the motorcycle death wish ”… ” how many mufflers do you own ” …” the best roads to wake up in america ” …” is four cyl with no pipes safer then a v-twin with no pipes-more beats per min ”???? this is the stuff..
Lon · July 5, 2012 at 6:14 pm
Maybe the government could mandate that all non-motorcyclists must wear a helmet capable of blocking the cool sounds of drag pipes if they walk near to or reside within a given distance of a roadway where pipes might be dragged.
Presumably, the law would provide for a greater distance from a multiple lane roadway and from roadways with steep hills.
Then, we could reduce the scope of this debate to determining what those distances should be.
It still begs the question – will we be liberal and inclusive and try to capture as many non-motorcyclists as possible – or conservative in how many should be rounded up and fitted with helmets?
roy · July 5, 2012 at 5:55 pm
sorry no wait i can not …soooo lets start ”whats a decent loud highway motorcycle muffler that will save lives ” .some must be better then others to save your life…or ”motorcycle muffler fashion show ” … some must look cooler then others ..we need to know because reving the motor gets people to look at you to save your life ,we do not want them to go ”wow what a cheap looking loud muffler on that cheap fools bike ” now all the hey look at me will be for nothing … and theres ” recommending a first loud save your life muffler ” sort of a starter muffler so you can go deaf easyer and learn to sign,then jump after a few years to drag pipes. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT, THINGS THAT MATTER …. ”what helmets block the cool sounds of drag pipes ” ..things like that. ”will chrome or black pipes save you faster….
Lon · July 5, 2012 at 5:55 pm
There are some men who turn a deaf ear to reason and good advice, and willfully go wrong for fear of being controlled.
— Jean De La Bruyère
roy · July 5, 2012 at 5:42 pm
OH MY …GUY ….HERE WE GO AGAIN …dan-ted -leon any ideas .. for mr guy ..leave me out of this one …i am turning deaf ears to this…[ get it ]
Guy · July 5, 2012 at 4:45 pm
After reading the comments, I still do not understand how someone can say ” Screamin’ Eagle exhaust sounds “goodâ€, and it is NOT “too loudâ€, while being ABOVE the “normal†stock exhaust system to validate his breaking the law of the land. They then call the thousands of annoyed people ‘liberals’ or any other name instead of understanding that THEY are the problem and THEY are the nuisance that negatively affect all other law abiding motorcyclist.
Most of them are not real motorcyclist they are posers. I just wish they would go pose somewhere else !
Around my town, whenever we hear those sickly loud pipes, most people say to each other, ”what a clown” or ”What’s wrong with this dumb ass ?” ”why do we have to put up with this childish behavior ? ” or ” another obnoxious low IQ motorcyclist”.
Since 1970 I have owned more than 20 motorcycles, cruisers, sport tourers, dirt and naked bikes. I presently ride a Triumph Speed Triple. The thrills of motorcycling have nothing to do with being noisy. Never did I feel the need to annoy all around me with loud pipes, (or with loud speakers playing my loud heavy rock music just because I like it and the hell with anybody else).
LPG
Lon · July 4, 2012 at 6:12 am
Thank goodness for the political discussions Tim.
As crazy as some of the rhetoric can be (and is), it is amusing, entertaining and occasionally insightful. Not like the earnestness of a boring discussion about a non-issue like pipe noise.
If having the other drivers hear you were the real safety concern, bikers who had that concern would all install really loud horns. Then the pipe noise question would be reduced to a simple matter of personal expression -vs- disturbing others. The solution would then end up being something like the definition of free speech – which allows unfettered, outrageous utterances – but does not sanction yelling “FIRE” in a crowded theater.
“I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.” –Thomas Jefferson
Joe K · July 3, 2012 at 5:53 pm
Dan,
I don’t have much time to read the posts so I really don’t know if you and I agree about loud pipes or not. but I agree with you completely on your politics. Liberals are the ones who put the word “tics” (which means blood suckers) on the end of the word “Poly” (which means many), and they never miss a trick or an opportunity to take money or just screw someone over. It’s in their nature. It’s what makes them feel like valid human beings.
Joe K · July 3, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Maybe I’m just not to smart, but I don’t understand why the question is even being asked. Last year I bought a Kawasaki Vulcan 800 that had loud pipe when I looked it it on the floor. I immediately asked if they could be replaced with stock pipes and got lucky. It was a used bike and the previous owner still had the stock pipes. I did this because I head to work about 5 AM Monday through Friday and I didn’t want to be the jerk that wakes up the whole town just leaving the house.
Having said that, I think it should be obvious that loud pipes do save lives. I don’t think there needs to be any science done or opinion polls done to decide that 2 plus 2 is four. It is true that sometimes a driver may not see an oncoming biker. In my car, I have pulled out in front of other cars because I didn’t see the other car coming, so I think it reasonable to conclude that yes, a driver in a car or truck can miss an on coming bike, visually. But if the pipes are loud enough to wake the dead, the bike will be heard. I don’t see why there is even any question about this.
So, why did I change back to the stock pipes? There are two reasons. The first I already gave: Just respect for other people. I don’t want to hear the neighbors hip hop music rattling my windows at 5 AM and I think I owe him the same courtesy. The second reason is more personal. I am aware of the dangers other drivers pose to a biker. I am also aware whose responsibility it is to keep me alive. It is not theirs, it’s mine. If I get hit by another driver and it lands me in a wheel chair, or hospital for the rest of my life, or even kills me, blaming someone else, or circumstances won’t change the outcome if I get hit. It is MY responsibility to not get hit. I suppose it’s a whole nother conversational subject, but honestly, I believe most motorcycle accidents, while they may involve other vehicles are in fact the bikers fault. Driving to fast, being to overconfident, failing to be alert and paying adequate attention to possible adverse situations. Failing to follow far enough behind other vehicles to not only have time to react to another persons break lights, but also to something on the road that a car may pass over and a Bike will not, out driving ones headlights at night, failure to wear a helmet when it is clearly the smart thing to do, lax motorcycle maintenance, even driving a motorcycle under the influence of marijuana or alcohol. Ultimately, one fact never changes: If you get killed, you’re dead. Stay alive. Some drivers may feel the loud pipes help and I wouldn’t disagree, but I also feel that if I have my head screwed on the way it should be, I don’t need them.
Having said that, I live in a relatively small community, not a big city. I do not ride in places like San Antonio, St. Louis or Kansas City where I have a heck of a time even in a car. If I did have to ride a bike in larger cities, I might feel a bit differently, but I wouldn’t put on loud pipes until personal experience tells me it is a must.
Tim · July 3, 2012 at 11:56 am
Hey! Why does this have to be a political discussion? All this liberal vs conservative crap makes me sick. The loud pipes discussion can be completely evaluated (if not resolved) without the political blame game and all the smug posturing that motorcycling helps me ignore.
Science and statistics are needed to sort this out. And its clear there aren’t enough of either.
So people fall back on “common sense” to sort it out (which it doesn’t) or take a political/regulatory angle; and it doesn’t. All we have is people taking sides!
Be clear – whether loud pipes save live is one question. Whether motorcycle exhaust volume should be regulated for any reason is another!
(Personally I would rather sound levels weren’t regulated)
Science and stats take time and money and the will to know the truth about any saftey advantage. I don’t know where that will come from.
roy · June 29, 2012 at 2:12 pm
dan the idea of moving the lib’s out of town is great but it seems like they have done that all ready… west coast, north east ,washington d.c. etc red /blue states…..so maybe a new 1861 is needed..with more states joining in….???? just an idea…
roy · June 29, 2012 at 2:05 pm
dan i agree with you on all the left-right ..and if i lived in calif i would move out.. as for as daytona its 1 1/2 weeks in march and 1 week in oct … 200,000 loud pipes day and nite .. but alas i live far enough 15miles away to catch a break from it….but it is a $ maker for local cops…because if your from out of town, you can not fight the ticket 5 weeks later .. $ is not worth it.to travel to fla.. so you pay or out goes a warrant to your state, bingo they got you and if you come back and get restoped bingo go to jail ,[ no free pass get out of jail card ] and bike gets towed bingo more $ and storage per day ,bingo more $.. bond $ to get out of jail …they never stop the locals because you can fight it….out of state or canook’s pay and pay…. you must of read about [ or google ] the ga. state i-95 bike week stops at truck weigh stations… all posed for safety but really its the tickets $$$$ they want…. and as goes the calif muffler tickets.. the lib’s will smell $$$ and go for it …and i will say it again why are we talking about saving lives , do you really think they care if we [riders ] live….any way lol to you ride safe ..
ray · June 29, 2012 at 11:41 am
i dont really know for a sure fact either way. i am in my late 50’s and enjoy the “low” rumble of my harley. the last harley had a performance header and the people that i rode with said that i could always be the last in the pack because the header was to “loud”. it was a stock header form kerker and really enhance the performance. as for saving my life at any time with pipes NO it hasnt happened yet. the status of loud pipes saving lifes is as passe as “bright colored bikes” are more clearly seen. WRONG again. the last harley was repainted to a bright corvette yellow and the 4 wheelers still pulled out in front of, didnt stop for and just palin ignored it. loud pipes probably are in the same category as bright colors. niether one is going to save your life until the 4 wheel drive people realize that there ARE THOSE OF US WHO LIKE THE 2 WHEEL VERSION OF TRANSPORTATION.
Lon · June 29, 2012 at 7:33 am
“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.”
— Thomas Jefferson
Dan · June 29, 2012 at 7:05 am
I’m glad you understand what I mean Roy…too bad you don’t agree. NOTHING political is ever “over”….that is the basis of my argument again’t liberal thinking. They (liberals) continuously lose at the ballot box, but, always find another liberal judge to throw out the outcome of elections clearly showing voters desires….and California is a perfect example of that….so the majority of voters have to go back AGAIN, and AGAIN, and try to reestablish their wishes.
You say “it’s over, move out”…yet, you continue to stay in Daytona and complain about the excessively loud pipes, which the city evidently is willing to put up with for the money generated by the Daytona Bike Week celebration….why is that, if your answer is so simple?…move out.
The unhappy liberal mentality is to get government involved in anything they don’t like…and make everyone else go along with THEIR wishes….that’s not really the American way…remember the old saying “The majority rules”….that used to be good enough…until the ACLU, and other anti-American liberal groups found that they could force everyone else to go along with them….no matter how much disagreement there was….by just finding the “right” liberal judges.
While I agree….and have said so since my very first post….there ARE bikes with “excessively loud” exhaust pipes….I don’t like them…but…they are in the minority, and I would much…MUCH….prefer to put up with those….occasional…..rude, and selfish riders, than to put an overly restrictive “decibel limit”….the key words being “overly restrictive”, and a typical liberal reaction to ANYTHING….on everyone else who chooses a modified exhaust, which is only a bit louder than the very quiet stock Harley pipes….that’s just me, I guess.
I was only drawn into this thread…as far a actually replying…by the overly aggressive name calling and even physically violent threats of one of the admitted liberal posters.
THAT liberal mentality is what I will never stop fighting against.
Helmet laws…seat belt laws…no smoking laws….no soda machines in school laws….keep off the grass laws., etc, etc, etc…and yes, even the liberal inspired, California special “Twinkie Tax laws”….while I MAY agree that they are all….at their core….good ideas, and even follow them myself, as MY choice….I will fight the liberally driven, overly controlling efforts of liberals as they continue to further and further, restrict the freedom of choice of ALL Americans, simply because THEY don’t like something….
As far as Americans “moving out” of any particular state….I have a much better idea….how about ALL liberals either going along with the majority view of things, accepting the occasional deviants to accepted behavior, such as an occasional loud pipe….or….all of THEM moving OUT of America altogether?….they would be happier in a place like Europe, with all it’s socialized policies…and the rest of us Americans that still believe in our Constitution, and freedom of choice for all, could go about living OUR lives free from the non stop attacks on our freedoms by twisted, bitter liberals, concerned NOT with just living THEIR lives, but trying to control freedom of choice for the rest of us, and OUR “pursuit of happiness”…another “minor” irritant of our Constitution that seems to truly bother liberals.
How about that?
roy · June 28, 2012 at 3:11 pm
dan i understand all you are saying ..i just mean for all/everyone to do the right -left-up-down ..thing means nothing even this talking about loud pipes saves lives is nothing, that is past gone ..falling on deaf ears [ i wonder how that happened ? ] i play on words …anyway reason ,talking time is over its done …in the peoples republic of calif….its not even thought of as part of the usa anymore …move out ,ride east as most wise people are doing… redraw the lines and let it go…the home of the hot-rod is gone..we all know it..just like we all know ,even if loud pipes save lives ..its means nothing now .. so why do we still talk about it , get worked up trying to tell each other yes-no…we [ riders ] mean nothing in this now, its to late ….wait till the fines and bull stops start .stop for pipes and throw it a few more ,or theres park it till its towed,then the tow co’s will make $, co’s of after market pipes move to better states [ less shipping charges ]..all the stock pipes taken off back east [daytona bike week ] will be resold to calif. riders [ at a slight less cost then new ] ….we should dump this thread and move on to something thats real like the new e-85 fuel , cat converters, or should we wear helmets ..gloves. motorcycle driver testing .the real barn burner’s ..oh wait that’s been done over and over and over …what a rut this site is in
Lon · June 27, 2012 at 5:05 am
Comes the revolution, everyone will eat strawberries and cream.
Even if they don’t LIKE strawberries and cream!
Dan · June 26, 2012 at 9:00 pm
LOL….Happy Trails, Roy.
Dan · June 26, 2012 at 8:49 pm
Well, this is getting more than a bit boring…same old information being rehashed.
Roy…for about the fourth time…I AGREE with you…have from my FIRST post…there ARE bikes that have obnoxiously loud exhausts…..however, there is a lot of latitude between stock exhaust pipes and those overly offensive pipes.
AGAIN…I have no problem with a limit being set on a decibel level, what does worry me is that when people that call themselves “liberal” start deciding, for all the rest of the world, just what that limit will be, they go WAY too far, and only consider what THEY personally like.
Places like California are good examples…liberals have basically ruined that state, to the point that special gasoline has to be made for them….special emission controls on the cars sold there….special labels on ALL products that are sold there, have to be attached….even all the public buildings, and hotels have to have special brass plaques placed on them near an entrance specifying that the building contains “materials known to the state of California to cause cancer”….etc….that’s what liberals do, it’s all about control of other people’s lives….that’s what they seem to crave….of course they seem to not worry about setting any limits about allowing how many murdering illegal aliens are allowed to come in…..too worried about motorcycle exhaust noise, or helmet laws, or seat belt laws, or no smoking laws, etc, etc, etc…get the point?
As far as your reference to MY “name calling”, I would point out…..AGAIN…that I have only done so in response to the original name calling of the early LIBERAL posters, and the actual, and very emotional RANTS they posted…..THAT is what actually drew me in to this debate beyond a simple one post reply.
I don’t really care one way or the other, if someone does, or does not like the sound of MY Harley…it is NOT excessive, by an actual witnesses that have heard it, and I happen to enjoy it…which I realize some people simply can’t stand, but then, that is the liberal mentality…always try to stop anyone else enjoying something that they don’t particularly like.
Bikers talking to each other and exchanging ideas is one thing….some irate, emotional liberal seeking out this forum to verbally attack all Harley riders, simply because some one with a loud bike misbehaved and woke him up in the middle of the night, is something else….and then he goes into an emotional rant and even threatens to do actual bodily harm to ANY biker…because HE doesn’t like loud bikes…..if you think I’m exaggerating, go back to the beginning of this thread and take a look…..and you sided with him.
I guess my point is, discussion is fine…individual opinions are fine….name calling and threats of bodily harm because someone doesn’t like another bikers noise level is something else…..I find that very offensive, and it almost always seems to be initiated from those that call themselves “liberal”….as I quickly pointed out, and he verified…pretty simple.
Happy Trails, Roy.
Lon · June 26, 2012 at 9:31 am
“A man who would deny freedom to another man does not deserve it for himself.”
— Abraham Lincoln
roy · June 26, 2012 at 6:52 am
OH DAN DAN DAN … as i have said over and over i like louder pipe’s , but THEY DON’T ..they out vote you… maybe its not right , but they have more votes. it’s that simple, its in calif….NOW …you can call all you want names, left -right.up down .. it will not change anything…there is more of them then you …and as a law abiding cit of course you will change your pipes back to stock mufflers with the funny little words on the side of them …or not be a lawfull dude and just pay the fine and ride down the line till the next cop wants $$$ ..why rant about it here, and that goes for everyone not just you DAN …..
Dan · June 26, 2012 at 6:33 am
Hmmm….interesting idea, Richard…so, by YOUR logic…IF you have a bike….and keep it parked in the garage…with the engine off, so as to never offend anyone’s aural sensibilities….you are the epitomy of a “secure” individual….are you European? LOL
richard gentry · June 26, 2012 at 6:10 am
some things in life are VERY simple .. the louder the pipes [ bike ] the more insecure the person.
Dan · June 26, 2012 at 5:46 am
Wipe your chin, Roy…you’re dribbling again. LOL….VROOOOOOM!!!!!
roy · June 26, 2012 at 4:57 am
DAN says” law abiding american citizen ” …freedom to modify their exhaust for a little more sound ……well dan if the law says xxx loud and your free to modify law abiding citizen …change’s it well guess what he is not a law abiding citizen ..is he ..littlie more sound is not what we are talking about.. its LOUD no muffler,drag pipes, reving up at stop lights…for ??? what reason…NOW your law abiding citizen is not so law abiding is he …please do not start the poltic, left-right with me. stay to the subject…law says xxx sound and your straight pipe h.d. is over that so the voteing one’s will say ok .. you do not care about our ears so we will just make a new law [ for you law abiding ones ] that sound is not the issue, no meters needed, no training of the sound man…. just stock mufflers after that year and thats it .. case closed … no after market, no nothing … what year is this motorcycle sir , where is the markings on the mufflers, NONE ok here is your ticket have a nice day …. no testing , no nothing … give me your $$$ and go away till the next time …SO thank you law abiding, freedom loving citizen, H.D. owners ..race muffler sport bike riders .. thank you for all you have done to help out motorcycleing.. good show..
Dan · June 25, 2012 at 2:08 pm
LOL….good idea….it’s cheaper by the ton, ya’ know!
Lon · June 25, 2012 at 11:25 am
Easy Big-Fella.
Time for a nice long, relaxing ride on the liberally displaced, liberal display of chrome you call your train.
Spew out an extra few k ft3s of CO2 for Uncle Al.
Dan · June 25, 2012 at 11:08 am
LOL….exactly my point, Lon. It’s not that the word actually HAS four letters, it is simply a way of saying that it has become almost a “curse” word…which most seem to have four letters”. The modern day “liberal democrats” have gone so far to the left, as to make the word “liberal”, politically speaking, into something that is almost the total opposite of what the true definition really is. A case in point is on “free speech”…look at all the demonstrations, yelling, screaming, pie throwing, etc, the so called “liberals” do whenever some conservative speaker is invited to some college campus to speak, such as a Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc. The people that are there to actually hear what these speakers have to say are often confronted by a gauntlet of hostile, sign waving, spitting, obscenity spewing, “liberals” to try to prevent…or at least hamper…those people’s exercise of freedom of choice, because they…the “liberals” disagree with what the speakers have to say. Yet, when the roles are reversed, and some liberal, even extreme left wing radical, is invited to a college campus to speak…which is most often the case, there is very little in the way of demonstrations, yelling, or any of the other things that the liberals use as common tools of their fascism.
Obama, and the liberal democrat party have gone so far to the left in their pandering to all the special interest groups…whether it be minorities of any kind, the homosexuals, the extreme “feminists”, or, as is in the news today, the ILLEGAL mexicans and their so called “right” to stay in America, even though they are breaking the law every second that they are here….all in the hope of squeezing out one more vote for the self anointed “king”, obama…who’s record is so dismal, that he simply can not hope to run on his performance, and is desperately hoping to fire up his “base”, and even try to keep voters on the rolls who are dead, felons, illegal aliens…even cartoon characters such as “Mickey Mouse, and Donald Duck”….as were allowed to vote for him last time. THAT is why he, and his lap dog, Eric Holder, are presently suing Arizona, Florida, Alabama, and Oklahoma….which are states that are simply trying to prevent voter fraud, such as occurred in the last election. Anyone, with an ounce of integrity, can easily see that there SHOULD be certain requirements of PROOF that you ARE a living, breathing, non felon, LEGALLY in this country, and a CITIZEN. Yet, the “liberals” seem to have a real problem with this idea.
My political views have not changed….my values are the same as they have always been all my life. It is the total abandonment of truth, fairness, equality, and rule of law…not a dictator…that the liberal democrats have chosen that makes me wonder how anyone could listen to their leaders…see what they do, compared to what they SAY…and still remain a member of that morally bankrupt group of socialists.
If it was up to Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, or Obama….there would be no automobiles….no guns….no petroleum products for energy production….we would, in fact, be a third world nation….such as Kenya…. or those in the Middle East. There would be no motorcycles, because there would be no internal combustion engines, so, instead of having the “excessive noise” of a random Harley exhaust, those like Ted and the others, could sleep soundly all night…and only have to worry about stepping into a pile of “excessive exhaust” left by a passing horse during the night.
I’ll take the random noise….lights, computers, automobiles, airplanes, my throbbing Harley Night Train,….and the wonderful freedom of choice and pursuit of happiness that it allows me and anyone else who has the sense to lighten up, don’t take themselves so seriously, quit trying to tell everyone else how to live, and enjoy life, thank you…it’s a one way ticket, you know….
Lon · June 25, 2012 at 7:39 am
I don’t know if the word liberal now has only 4 letters – that would be too “liberal” a spelling for me. But its usage, if not the dictionary meaning of the word, sure has changed over here.
I remember learning that the Founding Fathers were “Liberals” and that the country was founded on “Liberal” principles in a spirit of “Liberalism”. So, I looked at a couple of dictionaries (not the Urban Dictionary) on-line.
Interesting:
LIBERAL – broad-minded; especially: not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
LIBERALISM – A theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard
– A political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties.
Good Lord Dan, by these definitions, you are a Liberal and so am I.
And Ted isn’t.
Dan · June 25, 2012 at 5:35 am
LOL…that’s the point, Mark….the train is “alive” and still rolling along…just like mine!
And, Ted….you are obviously a product of the liberal controlled public school system, where, thanks to Hillary Clinton, and her “Goals 2000” project, to dumb down American kids, the undermining and destruction of a once great public school system has continued. Before the liberals had so much control of the public schools, the students were always taught that proper English, grammar, and punctuation WERE very important, and showed that you were an educated individual who could think and express his thoughts clearly. However, now that the liberals control the public schools, American children’s test scores have dropped so dramatically, as compared to the rest of the world, that we find ourselves WAY down, somewhere around the “30th out of 150” countries, and while high school students might not know that New Mexico is a STATE, and not another country, they damn sure know that “Suzie has two mommies”….those numbers are probably not exact, but can easily be found, if one wants to Google search it, but their approximate value is pretty accurate.
Also, Ted, why is it you liberals always bring up guns, no matter what subject is being discussed? What is it about guns that frightens you people so? Do you not believe in the Constitution, and the Second Amendment? A gun is a “tool”…as is a hammer, or a saw…do you have the same fear of those things? It is NOT the law abiding American citizen….which the Second Amendment protects….that is the problem in gun related violence, but, the uncontrolled criminal element….such as minorities, and now, illegal mexicans. who, by the way, murder and kill over 4000 innocent American EACH year….that cause so much of the violent, senseless deaths with guns. There are now over 20,000 gun control laws in this country….and STILL liberals…like you, and obama….continue to call for more “control” over law abiding Americans….will you ever stop, or be satisfied that there are enough laws….or do you naively think that the “genie can be put back into the bottle” and guns will magically disappear if ONLY you liberals can just pass ONE MORE LAW! If it weren’t for the liberal mentality…and the anti-American ACLU….the people who DO commit the violence would be done away with and America could return to a being a civilized society where one did not have to fear being assaulted, car jacked, mugged, robbed, raped, or murdered by some violent thugs that…due to liberal laws….now roam the city streets at will, looking for one victim after another. The police can not protect citizens 24 hours a day, and yet, due to liberal’s destroying the authority’s ability to control these hostile, maladjusted criminals, the individual has to accept sole responsibility for our own safety. That is why, 37 states now have concealed carry weapons permit laws, and that number is growing….as it should. Since liberals insist that law abiding citizens must be confronted with violent criminals on our streets, Americans are re-awakening to the fact that we DO have the right to self protection….as we did, and always have had, since this country was founded.
You mention that you are about to buy another motorcycle…that’s good, and the fact that you live in America, and have a wide choice of bikes is really great, don’t you think? But then, you rant…as liberals often do…about the fact that others may choose to buy and ride a Harley…and that, in YOUR liberal mind….that makes them a “loud, obnoxious jerk”….so remind me, what is “liberal” about that way of thinking?….is it the part about them CHOOSING to buy a Harley that offends you?….or the fact that they might truly like and enjoy the rhythmic “beat” of the Harley V-Twin engine?….or maybe that they have the FREEDOM to modify their stock exhaust pipes for a LITTLE more sound? You know, the STOCK Harley exhaust pipes are very, very, quiet…so, maybe you should modify your thinking a bit….but then, as a liberal, that is not one of your favorite behaviors, is it?
I don’t know you, but, I would wager that I have been riding two wheeled vehicles a bit longer than you, and guess what….I put playing cards on my bicycles to hit the spokes for a more “Harleyesque” sound, even then. LOL I got my first Cushman motor scooter 47 years ago, and have owned a series of Hondas, Can Ams, Yamahas, a Suzuki, more Hondas, and finally, my Harley Night Train.
You say you like to “lean into the corners and feel the air”….well, guess what….that is exactly WHY I ride also. It is the closest thing to flying that we can do on the ground. I have never owned a scooter or motorcycle that I have not dragged the floorboards (my Cushman) or the kick stand, or foot pegs while enjoying some “spirited” cornering…. I know that my beloved Night Train drags the “jiffy stand” in tight left hand corners, and, the lower exhaust pipe on the right side, while leaning around tight right handers. In fact, I am having the front tire replaced this very week….after only 5000 miles, due to the EDGES of the thread being worn down to…or maybe a bit past…..what I consider a “safe” limit, while the center thread could go several thousand more miles….but, the “premature” wear is worth it to me, as, that’s the way I like to ride “The Train”….LOL
Finally, while you are certainly free to disagree with me, to describe my writing as “excrement” is offensive, and shows your lack of emotional stability when you find someone disagreeing with your thinking. If anyone cares to read through all the posts on this thread, they will easily, and clearly see, that it is the LIBERAL posters that FIRST choose to use profanity, and call people names….as is almost always the case when there is a debate on freedom. It seems that, while constantly decrying that they are “liberal” and “believe” in freedom, liberals ALWAYS get emotional, and very hostile to anyone who disagrees with them, and simply are NOT happy if they can’t figure out a way to make THEIR way of thinking into some kind of “law” to force others to go along with them…again, please remind me what is truly “liberal” about that way of coercing others behavior. and, I CLEARLY said, in my very first post, that I AGREE that there certainly ARE some riders that have “offensively loud” exhaust pipes, and that I DO think that there should be an upper decibel limit on the sound….but, liberals don’t ever seem to know when to stop, and simply can not be trusted to be fair in any debates on setting limits…on anything. You people have truly made liberal a “four letter word”, so much so, that obama, the Clintons, and most other democrats describe themselves as “progressive” these days….what does that tell you? LOL
Oh…one last thing. I am a retired Air Force pilot, AND a retired airline captain. I was part of Desert Storm, and have been threatened by the North Koreans with being shot down while flying overseas, I have handled inflight fires, engine failures, explosive decompressions, and sections of my wing being blown off….I surely am NOT afraid to ride without my “loud pipes”, however, I do want you….and ALL liberals to know….that, since I ride in the wasteland, formerly know as Detroit, I have a CCW, and do carry….ain’t that cool! LOL
P.S. The “drowned at birth” remark is to get the true fascist side of your thinking “out of the closet” and into the light, for all to see. LOL
Lon · June 24, 2012 at 2:01 pm
A lot of trains don’t have loud pipes?
MARK EVANS · June 23, 2012 at 8:29 pm
If loud pipes save lives then why do so many people get hit by trains?
Lon · June 15, 2012 at 7:16 am
No doubt a blip of the throttle on a bike with loud pipes will get the attention of an errant or distracted cage driver.
That’s what I use my loud horn for. I am sure my horn blast is momentarily annoying to lots of people besides the cage driver but, if they think about it and realize that the loud blast just saved a life, they will be understanding and forgiving.
But when I exit the scene, unscathed, I don’t continue to blast the horn to announce my presence (or confess my inadequacies) for all hear on an unending basis.
If safety were the issue, no biker would paint everything black, remove “un-cool” clutter like big loud horns, auxiliary lights, reflectors and big clunky (but visible) turn indicators. It’s about Napoleon complexes.
Ted · June 6, 2012 at 6:01 pm
Vern,
Sorry I didn’t know this was English class. I will try and proof read my post better before hitting post and rushing off to work. I also didn’t know that grammar and spelling makes your argument any better. I thought it was the content. I’m truly sorry if I offended you as a republican, but Dan’s post just got me a little reactionary. “all liberals should be drowned at birth” started it.
I am a liberal because I believe that everyone should be able to do whatever the hell they feel like doing, as long as it doesn’t negatively affect others too seriously. That’s what laws are for. To make sure there is a penalty for harming others.
I have many republican friends, half my family is republican, and I graduated from a very conservative school in one of the most conservative states. However, when I wake up early in the morning and read the excrement that Dan posted, I will react.
I’m about to buy another motorcycle and have always had a soft spot for Harley’s. I would also like to buy American. But if that means that I have to ride next loud obnoxious jerks that wish I were ” drowned at birth”, then count me out. I’ll get a Japanese bike or English, then maybe we can enjoy the ride and motorcycles without posing. I ride because I like to lean into corners and feel the air. I have no desire to show off how tough I am, or how much I spent on my bike with its loud pipes.
Vern Rosa · June 6, 2012 at 9:14 am
Ted, Ted, Ted… People would probably be more inclined to give your ideas some credence if you were able to spell correctly and use proper grammar instead of coming up with profanity-laden, political comments. By now I think we all know you don’t want Harley riders to wake you up at 1:00 AM with loud pipes. And I imagine most of us agree with that. If the pipes are so loud they can wake up the neighbors, well, that is just too loud. See? Some of us Republicans actually understand and agree with your point of view…when it makes sense. None of us think it is okay to hit someone in the face with a bag of excrement. How you came up with that analogy to compare it to loud pipes is beyond me.
Ted · June 6, 2012 at 5:44 am
@dan
If being a liberal means that I can have my persuit of happiness without someone stalking, shooting and killing me because he has his gun happiness, then count me in. Have loud pipes saved lives? Sure they have, I don’t think anyone can argue that that has happened before. Could it make someone happy to shit in a bag and smack it across the face of someone that they dislike? Sure. But it is at the expense of the other person’s happiness. Wake up! You live in a country with other people!
I’m sure your pipes sound sweet, but maybe not so much to the guy that is trying to sleep when you ride buy goosing it to get cars attention at 1 am and wake him up from the sleep he needs to function at his job tomorrow. Impeding his persuit of happiness.
That’s the problem with repubs. Let me get, keep, and protect mine and f@&$ everyone else. Let everyone pay for the roads that trucks from large corps will screw up, but not make the corps pay any taxes. Wake up! Obama wants to make sure all Americans have the persuit of happiness, Romney wants to take all our tax money and give it to the richest, who need it the least. Look into his record at Bain and you will see how he eliminated the jobs of many people so that him and his rich buddies can get richer.
If you are too afraid to ride without your loud pipes maybe you belong in a cage. Managing the risks of riding isn’t for everyone. Outrageously loud pipes or stereos aren’t for your enjoyment only your enjoyment of pissing others off.
Jay · June 4, 2012 at 8:22 am
Well said Dan!
Dan · June 4, 2012 at 7:23 am
LOL…that’s okay Jay…he’s just the present liberal in charge…it’s a mindset with them…a way of enforcing things they can’t win at the ballot box…. and not dependent on the individual…..but, agree or not, the things I mention are true.
Jay · June 4, 2012 at 6:07 am
Dan! “Twinkie Laws” I was with you until you put OBAMA into the conversation, Most people do not know if a motorcycle is there unless they hear it. Most bike accidents are in intersections and the motorcycle is rear-ended or turning left and gets whacked by oncoming traffic. cars and trucks will not “look twice” for bikes and will encroach the lane the bike is in and say they never saw the bike! Or turn in front of them and say they never saw the bike. I saw the commercial on TV were a car pulls up to a stop sign and looks left then right then pulls out, then WHAM a bike hits the car driver’s front end so violently it scares the bageebees out of you. The car driver never looked left again to see the oncoming bike and WHAM. Loud pipes could have helped. but I doubt it in this case. Everytime I have had close calls it was because of an inattentive driver and the perverbial Jackass! I have a Cruiser and just cruise. when I leave a safety zone in front of me someone jumps into it. No Rice-Rocket tricks here. Evasive maneuvering on occasion though. Tractor-Trailer Tire Skin Avoidance. I have a lot of miles and I thank Almighty God for them being as safe as they have been. LOUD PIPES yes! I will take them over stock any day!
Dan · June 4, 2012 at 5:13 am
Interesting to see this thread still getting comments…that’s good.
I had two separate incidents on my ride yesterday that, while not “saving my life”, does point out a little example of how “louder” pipes DO get “some” driver’s attention. On two separate occasions yesterday, there where vehicles waiting for traffic so that they could turn and proceed…on both occasions, as I approached from their left, the drivers where looking to their right….I gave my Night Train throttle a little “blip”, which did increase the “horrible noise” ( liberal speak for “excessive” ) from my Screamin’ Eagle slip on MUFFLERS….in both instances, the drivers turned their heads back to the LEFT, looking directly AT ME….now, if would be as bad as our socialist president, obama, with his false claims of “jobs saved”, if I tried to use these incidents as “proof” that “loud pipes save lives”….but, at least…in these two incidents, the drivers…maybe just coincidentally….DID become more aware that I was approaching….possibly stopping these drivers from “missing” me, and pulling out into my right of way. This type of example has occurred for me so many times that I can not honestly count them…but I KNOW that my little technique HAS made many…many….drivers….again, maybe just coincidentally….turn and look in my direction.
While I AGREE….as I stated with my very first post….there ARE “obnoxiously loud” exhausts out there, and there SHOULD be an upper decibel limit…what is scary to all freedom loving Americans, is that, just as the obama-ites want to tell us what our kids can bring to school in their lunches, or whether or not we should be free to buy a “Big Gulp” soft drink, when given control over us, liberals will NOT be fair, and will ram through laws that ONLY they think are “fair”….such as the monstrous “obama-care”, helmet laws, seat belt laws, no smoking laws, the infamous “Twinkie Law” of California fame, elbow pads and helmets for skate boarders and bicyclists, etc. I am NOT saying that any of these things are “bad”, or shouldn’t be considered, but THAT’S the point…let the individual decide…within a LARGE range of choice….what they want to do.
Maybe the rest of the world doesn’t get it….obviously most liberals certainly don’t…but, AMERICANS actually have the Constitutional right….many times denied by “liberals”…to “life, liberty, and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS”….sorry, Canada, and Japan, and Germany…and any other places where the citizens have let that freedom slip through their hands, only to be grabbed, in the death grip of totalitarianism, by “liberal” politicians…never to be released back to it’s rightful owners, the citizens.
Now, since I first saw this written debate, I have, on several occasions, while stopped at red lights, ask drivers in cars in the next lanes, if my beloved Night Train’s Screamin’ Eagle exhaust were “too loud”….I have not had EVEN ONE DRIVER say “yes”…in fact, of the eight or ten drivers I have questioned, I would guess that about six or eight of them…even the women and older people….have said they actually LIKE the sound…go figure!
I have also actually had Michigan State Troopers get out of their cars and listen to my Night Train’s melodic throbbing at idle, then “goosed” the throttle for them, and, again, have been told it “sounds sweet”, and they had no problem with it, while admitting…and me agreeing….that there were, indeed, SOME bikes that where “just too loud”, and gave motorcycles…especially Harleys…a “bad rap”.
I have repeated this same experiment with my local police, the Chesterfield Township Police department, the next town over’s police, the New Baltimore Police department, the Macomb County Sheriff’s department, and the Oakland County Sheriffs department….ALL of these police officers have listen, judged, and stated that my Harley’s Screamin’ Eagle exhaust sounds “good”, and it is NOT “too loud”, while being ABOVE the “normal” stock exhaust system.
While I appreciate the feelings of those that are complaining about the “extremely” loud exhausts….and again, I AGREE WITH THEM to a certain…limited…degree, if I had to choose between the few “too loud” exhausts so that the rest of us could enjoy the sounds of ours, and the “too quiet” exhausts of the stock bikes, such as Gold Wings, BMW’s etc, then I would gladly choose the FEW “too loud” exhausts….with hope of appealing to those riders to ‘please quiet it down…just a ‘tad’!
One last comment…for “roy” and others that are very upset with the excessive noise…I do agree with you…but, for someone who claims to be “to the right of Attila the Hun”, I would suggest you check your “directional compass”…the people you seem to be siding with are the ones that, from the beginning, have started the name calling, and even threats to do bodily harm to some biker with a “too loud”….in THEIR opinion….exhaust….yeah, those are liberals.
Besides, everybody knows Attila rode a Harley…..
drdave · June 3, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Where are the “statistics” that quiet bikes are in more accidents? If you have bright colors on your jacket, keep your front light on as a daytime running light, I’d like to see those stats. BMW v. Harley?