THE DEBATE GOES ON. I’ve never struggled so much to write a motorcycle article as I have with this one. A reader challenged me to enter the discussion about loud pipes earlier this year. At the time, I thought it an easy endeavor because I had my own years of experience and opinion on the matter.
However, I made a mistake: I decided to research the matter. And in the process, my opinion has been somewhat modified.
The Search for Evidence: “Loud Pipes Save Lives”
As you, too, might be inclined to do when seeking more info on a subject, I did an Internet search for “Loud Pipes Save Lives” and read through numerous articles at the top of the search results and much lower in the results.
What I came away with was less certainty on the subject than when I started. And more so than any time before, I recognized that truth can be illusive.
Now I don’t know if my personal experience is typical, or atypical, but I did ride for years with high-performance (and loud), exhaust pipes – when I was much younger. To this day, I don’t know how my ears survived. (Well, the fact is, now that I’m considerably more mature, the question of how well they survived is just as murky as my research on the matter of whether loud pipes save lives, or not.)
Although it appears my hearing is not as good as it used to be, how much of that is due to loud pipes or lots and lots of very loud concerts and very loud music blasting through headphones is difficult to discern. I’m sure it’s safe to say that neither supported long-term optimal hearing. (I only started wearing ear plugs while riding several years ago).
Loud Pipes Are Impractical For Long-Distance Touring
My first coast-to-coast motorcycle trip was on a motorbike with a high-performance, non-stock exhaust system that did not endear the neighbors to my notion of a spirited form of transportation. Although I’ve ridden coast-to-coast across North America a number of times since, I recall that first trip as a highlight of my life. And although I could discourse about the virtues of that summer adventure, in the early 80’s, for hours on end, one thing that I realized without any advice, feedback or suggestions from anyone else, was that loud pipes made for uncomfortable long-distance riding (and also that I would be switching from chain-drive to shaft-drive motorbikes for touring).
Personally, I don’t like loud pipes. As much as I love each and every kind of motorcycle, the only ones that diminish my enthusiasm for the brotherhood are those that disrupt the neighborhood harmony by announcing their every breath coming and going.
So, here I am, a long-distance, mature rider, with hundreds of thousands of miles of motorbike experience, who “used” to ride with loud pipes, and who has not liked them for years, and who is philosophically opposed to them due to their inherent and ongoing damage to the motorsport in the way they impinge on the lives of those non-riders whom are adversely effected by the noise pollution of their very existence. Hence, wouldn’t you think I’d be a vociferous opponent of the same?
Which brings me to the point of the first paragraph. I was already aware of the lack of real evidence that supports the concept that “loud pipes save lives.”
But lo and behold, my research did find anecdotal reports that extol the virtues of loud pipes.
The Truth, or Not?
So, what is the truth?
Are those riders who state that loud pipes “have” saved their lives just plain wrong?
What my research did “not” do is change my perspective on whether I, personally, will integrate loud pipes back into my riding: I won’t. In fact, in the future, I will likely include an electric motorcycle (which are practically silent), within a stable of riding choices.
However, what has resulted from my research regarding loud pipes is a softening of my perspective. Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals.
Even so, such does not address the rights of others to “not” be subjected to the noise of loud motorcycle exhaust systems.
In conclusion, although I am not an advocate for loud pipes, and even though I disagree with the use of the most obnoxious ones, and even though there is no hard evidence in support of their use as a safety catalyst, and even though the loudest pipes do damage to the overall public perception of motorcycling, I respect that there have been “some” quantity of riders (however large or small), who are still riding, purportedly as a result of loud pipes. Which has caused me to re-evaluate their application.
Better yet, what do YOU consider is the truth? Do loud motorcycle pipes save lives?
753 Comments
Lon · August 31, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Roy, if you weren’t such an insultingly condescending little twit, I wouldn’t even address your envy-driven hostility.
The Governator was probably too busy boinking the domestic help to know what he is signing. Either that, or California drew the line between Gold Wings and straight-pipe Harleys at a reasonable place.
Just as with the first amendment where you can say outrageous things from the theater stage but your right to free speech ends when you yell “Fire”, it is possible to strike the correct balance between a rider’s right to self expression and enjoyment, and a 3rd party’s right to to enjoy a reasonable amount of peace and quiet.
Maybe Californians actually got it right. If so, it will be a rare moment in the sun for them and they should be congratulated. If not, wait for the constitutional challenge.
roy · August 31, 2012 at 7:11 pm
LEON LEON LEON …they have vote on it CALIF… signed by wait wait …a freedom loving right-reb gov….where have you been these last few years ….and stamped on fact mufflers are the limits ….there are laws right now ….”oh no ”….you say, then why are there even mufflers on the new bikes ….why??? to stop the horse’s from bolting.and spilling the milk bottles..run away stage coach’s.. chickens that do not lay eggs …dogs driven nuts …all sorts of good solid reason’s….its called motor vech statutes..look em up for you state ..WOW …so the hen has egg rights on mufflers ,but we do not ….NEXT
Lon · August 31, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Like I said, Dan made a good point about sticking to the parameters of the question, and maybe I could have gotten him to agree that it would be fun to go slightly beyond – in order that we could discuss whether there ought to be a line drawn and where the line might get drawn.
At no time did the question encompass the notion of hearing loss. ROY!
And, not even the possible expanded question includes the notion of hearing loss. Why? Because the fact is, while loud pipes and other loud noises do save lives, loud pipes don’t cause hearing loss. There is no objective, scientific evidence that anyone (other than the rider) can or will suffer any hearing loss. But don’t loud pipes annoy some people? Yes. Are they entitled to some input regarding where the line should be drawn? Yes, but no more than anyone else.
The great thing about the Excited States is that it is constitutionally NOT rule-by-majority. The majority is only allowed to pass laws that are constitutional. An arbitrary ban on loud pipes would not be constitutional. But banning the loud-pipe equivalent to yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater WOULD be constitutional.
So I hope the do-gooders do vote for some draconian restriction and that the biker lobby challenges it and wins. It will be great spectator sport !
roy · August 31, 2012 at 8:42 am
DAN DAN DAN … do you even read the many,many lines of l vs r YOU rave about,just because i said the voters will shut loud pipes down , it never says OH the left voters will stop you big bad right riders , all it says is the VOTERS will vote, and the voters you all have pissed off are more then you all’s …like the voters in calif have done , saving lives of your kind of riders means nothing to THEM …. get it its done ,over with ..loud pipes might save lives but THEY do not CARE if its YOUR lives… east coast states just issue tickets no sound check ,here it is -bye ..pay or you the rider have to go and get the sound checked then the ticket it .void … no time ,no $ to do it well you pay the fine , they vote they have the guns ….riders loose … thanks ya all……SEE THIS IS JUST TO MUCH FUN WITH YOU PEOPLE … you loose your loud pipes then bitch to other riders about it , about freedom … well do some thing about it ..lets see redo the law .immm no not enough VOTES…. again will you shoot it out with the traffic cop handing you a muffler ticket .. nooo i don’t think so … ok get together and bitch about it , ask other riders to sign somthing ..say ” we want the right to make you deaf bill ” … GOD YOU PEOPLE ARE TO EASY…… NEXT
Dan · August 31, 2012 at 7:10 am
NEWS FLASH!!!!……
I feel that I can honestly say that I have just recently saved ANOTHER LIFE with my “loud pipes”!
As I was riding along a two lane country road on Wednesday, a little brown conservative squirrel was running “hell bent for leather” towards the roadway from my right. I was traveling about 50 mph, and it appeared that this busy little critter was in such a hurry that he was going to try to beat me to our intersecting point on the black top, and try to cross in front of me.
I actually did a slight swerve to my left, and “blipped” my throttle. He immediately stopped at the edge of the pavement, and stood on his hind legs, as I rolled by and looked at him, and saw that he was carrying some kind of green, round object in his mouth, which I took to be an unhusked walnut.
Now, I might have missed him anyway, but, had I rolled over him, he would have undoubtedly been squashed…..therefore, I am claiming ANOTHER life saved by my brilliant riding skills….aided by that “blip” of my “loud pipes”! LOL
Oh…how did I KNOW he was a conservative?….he was out earning his living…like conservatives always do….and NOT waiting for “King obama” to “redistribute the wealth” from some other hard working, “rich” squirrel, who just happened to be a bit more successful, and have acquired a somewhat bigger stash of walnuts.
As far as Roy, and your many….MANY….posts to this thread, you have a lot of emotion invested in this particular argument, and quite honestly your posts seem to be filled with some kind of illogical thoughts…..you claim you don’t care about “loud pipes” in one post, then rant about becoming deaf in another, even siding with “Ken” as he made threats about running down a biker or letting off an obviously guilty, hypothetical driver who kills a biker with his car….if he were ever on a jury deciding the murderous driver’s fate…..very strange.
And, as far as making it a political issue, you did that when you first brought up the threat of the issue being decided at the voting booth….wouldn’t you say THAT makes it a political issue?….well, maybe you wouldn’t.
I freely admit that I was the first to identify you, and the other extremely emotional ranters to this thread….with the constant name calling, belittling, and threats, to bikers who choose “loud pipes”….as liberals using time worn, and easily identifiable tactics of the extreme far left liberals when they meet with any kind of disagreement to the way they think…..I stand by my judgement, and it is almost always the way issues are “debated”….you people get emotional, make threats, then, before you know it , you’re out marching in the streets, and “demonstrating”.with fists raised in the air…..it’s the liberal/progressive/socialist way….the very tactics that the previous “community organizer”, turned “messiah”, obama used to rouse the rabble and lead his fellow ACORN ghetto rats into convincing Slick Willie Clinton into signing into law the “Housing Affordability Act”, which lead to the housing disaster which they created with Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac…..but, we’re supposed to blame Bush for THAT..
You have changed no one’s mind….nor have I….but, at least I remained civil to the other’s opinions, and only returned any name calling, or belittlement, to those that first used those lame, liberal tactics toward other posters who disagreed with them.
You…like obama…..should move on.
Vern Rosa · August 31, 2012 at 4:17 am
Roy…You really should listen to the doctor and go back on your meds.
roy · August 31, 2012 at 4:15 am
SORRY VERN ITS PART OF THE LEFT-RIGHT-CENTER ,ALIEN take over, PLOT, if you have ever been to daytona its 110% of the h.d. … 110% ??? ya the canooks are the other 10%. how do i know this .?? they are the ones who keep looking up at the bight yellow thing in the sky, reving the unmuffled motor at it …pointing .covering their eyes .like they never have seen the sun.oh, wait its the plates.. sorry about that …
Vern Rosa · August 31, 2012 at 3:35 am
Roy, now you are saying only 10% of the bikes are too loud? Wasn’t it you, a while back I admit, that said 95% of the bikes at Daytona bike week were straight pipe, too loud Harley’s?
roy · August 30, 2012 at 2:48 pm
p.s. ”i have a friend who has loss of hearing from a blow to the head ” … bet he was NOT wearing a dot approved helmet ..but one of your fake one’s … or even voted for ”let them that ride decide..” SORRY JUST HAD TO SAY IT …WHY BECAUSE ITS JUST TO MUCH FUN CRANKING YOUR CHAIN .. AND I REALLY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE MUFFLER ISSUE …HECK I COULD BE UP FOR THE MUFFLER TICKET MY SELF.. ITS JUST THIS IS TO GOOD TO PASS UP…SOME FOOLS LINKING MUFFLERS WITH LEFT VS RIGHT PLOTS …CHRIST YOU ALL ARE A TRIP… OK NEXT..BRING IT ON.
roy · August 30, 2012 at 2:25 pm
to who ever ”roysadic ” is if you could read down a few post its not me who claims the politic in every thing , if fact if you could read you would see i have said its not right vs left as some others claim..but noise and hearing ..sure loud pipes might save lives but in pissing off the many why should they care if you get to live… and theres more of the pissed off people that YOU have pissed off.. and they vote …again if you could read you would understand that calif has voted out YOUR loud pipes… and if you could read you would see that i have said over and over i do not care about loud pipes …but the point that there are more of them that do and they pass the laws ,the cops follow them to make $$$$$ tickets … all you loud pipe people can cry, say its a plot against your freedom to make other people deaf, aliens, blame me or others,what ever you want to feel good .. but it will change nothing they vote the laws …and your kind of mouthing off bikers will go meakly and follow them . and thats the way it will be ….because you bad arse biker people will not shoot it out with a cop over a muffler ticket …so suck it up .your kind of biker the 10% who brought this on and now we [ as in all the other 90% motorcycle riders have to live with it ]…by all you can come back with is name calling ..shows everyone who reads this what your really like and think and do not care for anyone but the look at me self…
Roysadic · August 30, 2012 at 11:54 am
The name says it all, Jesus what a whiney little wanna be turd! The other thing I find disturbing, besides Roy’s obvious mental stability,is the introduction of political beliefs into this ‘discussion’. There are more ways to lose your hearing other than loud pipes. I for one have a friend that lost his hearing from a blow to the head. With your attitude Roy I would be more concerned about that happening, then if me flying past you causes your hearing damage. You Sir shouldn’t even have a motorcycle, it is painfully clear you are afraid of them.
roy · August 27, 2012 at 1:00 pm
LON lets add the question’s [1] if loud pipes invoke hearing impaired..” who will hear the loud pipes when everyone’s deaf ”..and if so will then any lives be saved by loud pipes and [2] will the rider still feel good and bad ass if he and everyone is deaf and can not hear his pipes, and there for not LOOK at him reving his motor at a stop light ..[3] will DAN have nothing or nobody to call a liberal plot if they can not hear him..[ that should be a reason enough for DAN to want to put a plug in it ]
Lon · August 27, 2012 at 8:08 am
Hey Dan. You asked me to “keep to the question as asked…”.
Fair point. The question, as asked is “Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?—.
The answer is yes. Loud noises save lives, loud pipes are loud noises – ergo pipes save lives.
And then the posting ends. No discussion is possible within the parameters of the “question as asked”. How is that going to generate hits for MCg’s advertising clients?
But just because MCg can’t formulate a question whose parameters permit debate is no reason for us not to try to expand the question. We are human and humans love to debate.
If loud pipes were the only way to save lives, then the hearing-impaired be damned. Lives are more important and that would be the end of it. However, since there are other loud noises which can also save lives, it then becomes fair to ask the other question, namely: “given that there are alternative loud noises, is it ever fair to limit the loudness of pipes?”
That in turn begs the further question: “… and if so, where along the spectrum (between the muffled sounds of a Honda Goldwing at one end, and the straight pipes of a thundering Harley at the other end) should this should the line be drawn?”
And, if it is decided that a line should be drawn, who should draw it?
Should Libertarian Loud-Pipers be subjected to the tyranny of the majority via a simple vote?
Can controlling Liberal do-gooders silently accept the peer-reviewed findings of scientists without complaint and further lobbying for more stringent regs based on their sense of aesthetics or their ideology?
roy · August 27, 2012 at 7:30 am
vern,vern,vern try 900,000 reg.bikes in fla. then add bike week bikes from out of state…have you tryed to hear with packs of 100’s of h.d. with NO PIPES …not loud mufflers …NO MUFFLERS sitting at lights for over a week , reving them ,[not counting cooking the rear cylinder ] … just to show off ..how does that save their lives … oh all the $ they bring in to daytona , none of it seems to repair our hearing ..then theres ga. i-95 safety stops where they get tickets for loud pipes ..and bitch about it ..[ but thats another story ] ..but i guess your ok feel good loud pipes tops EVERYONES hearing rights…now you say its up to the law and not roy, of course it is ,thats what i have been saying the law works for the most vote’s and where they can make the most $ .. and there is more of them that vote the laws that l.e. will enforce then you 10% piss off then there is 90% of us …and we 90% have to deal with it ..but as long as you feel good its ok right …
Vern Rosa · August 27, 2012 at 6:14 am
Jay, the line in my post about hearing was a direct quote from Roy. If I have a hearing loss at all it is from shooting pistols, not from loud motorcycles. Roy thinks that it is more important for him to never be bothered by bikers than it is for him to be aware of motorcycles on the road. He and his lib companions would be happy to keep all of us that ride motorcycles off the roadways of this country. I don’t particularly like excessively loud pipes on bikes, but I’m not that often around those riders. If they have pipes louder than the law in any particular jurisdiction permits, it will be up to the local LEOs to handle, not me, and certainly not Roy.
Jay · August 27, 2012 at 5:55 am
“…why should I care about your life if you do not care about my hearing…â€
Roy, if that line (from your August 25th rant) is indicative of how you equate one thing to another, I really feel sorry for you, man. Your value system is really skewed.
The way it was written gave me the impression that your hearing was being affected by loud pipes, so, evidently you do ride. “MY BUST”
I feel there is plenty of road for all of us, and we need to get along. Driving a bike defensively will at times get you WHACKED. THAT IS WHY BIKES HAVE THROTTLES AND BRAKES and that is why we make a decision to use what we need to get away from IDIOTS.
Be safe!
Vern Rosa · August 27, 2012 at 5:46 am
Jay, what posting of mine gave you the idea that I drive a vehicle that would allow me to be on a cell phone? My daily vehicle, unless there is snow or ice on the road, is a Harley Ultra Classic.
You wrote;
VERN ROSA…†Your hearing†if you get off the cell phone and drive and pay attention to that you wouldn’t have the hearing problem.
That comment, aimed at me, makes no sense at all.
roy · August 27, 2012 at 5:43 am
vern my value system ??? its my ears …my hearing …its value is 100% .to me..if you want to give up say 20% of your hearing so someone can feel good …go ahead.have at it. its yours to give …i have no trouble with it make it 50% if you feel strong about it …. but dam well you do not give MINE or ANY bodys hearing up …thats ours to ruin not yours or his or them … just so they can feel good …and ya MY hearing is worth more to me then his life, as his life seems to be worth more then my hearing .. it works both ways …
Jay · August 27, 2012 at 5:36 am
Atilla said it well!
Honda… I had a VF750 magna and it was a great bike! 80 HORSE POWER AT THE WHEEL I saved the Dyno sheet. awesome machine.
I bought an 02′ Victory Touring Cruiser and It is great. Now with 75, 000 miles on it and a great investment. LOUD PIPES DO SAVE LIVES especially mine!
VERN ROSA…” Your hearing” if you get off the cell phone and drive and pay attention to that you wouldn’t have the hearing problem.
yOU ALL BE SAFE AND HAVE A GREAT DAY!
Vern Rosa · August 27, 2012 at 4:54 am
“…why should I care about your life if you do not care about my hearing…”
Roy, if that line (from your August 25th rant) is indicative of how you equate one thing to another, I really feel sorry for you, man. Your value system is really skewed.
roy · August 26, 2012 at 7:40 pm
ps dan i am not a left-lib i and everyone else justs want to hear , because its hard to sign with riding gloves on, you never know what you might say by mistake and working levers, twisting things. sort of slows down the chatter, and lip reading is hard with a full face helmet….and blue -tooth well thats another story, and then cell phone for flats help,hand signs, texing with riding gloves get me a break….put a cork in it [ get it put a cork in it ] tone it down thats all anyone is asking…..
roy · August 26, 2012 at 7:28 pm
ok so dan YOU can damage anyone’s hearing and its ok because your a conserv.so its your god given right to harm some one in the name of —–.while i want my hearing and its because i am a lib.so thats bad..??? MAYBE its because i and others have a right to hearing. that your god gave us/everyone .. its not conv. vs lib …right -left … its just i and others want to hear…while you want to take it from me…and play anti god….and thats ok by you….but if we want to take your power to make us deaf its bad.. ?????? ….its about hearing nothing else from our point. total damage to ears….you really think YOU have that right to make people deaf , just so you feel better… cut the left-vs-right crap out of your raveing …. deaf , damaged ears can be left and right .. or are you so confused and really believe that the sound does not hurt conserv ears by some right wing voodoo..oh wait what about the independ ….how does your sound judge them or shield them…or will it smite them along with the godless hord of heathen’s who want to hear … and if they are deaf how can they hear the word of your god ???? and be healed and become unto the right ….
Dan · August 26, 2012 at 7:06 am
Obviously, Roy, you DON’T care about anyone else’s “life”….only yours….because, as your constant, emotional rants prove, despite your denials, you are a liberal.
You only want others to be able to do and choose what YOU deem appropriate….it’s a common liberal genetic defect…..just do a Google search on “Obama”, “Clinton”, “Pelosi”, “Harry Reid”, “Ted Kennedy”…..or any liberal politician, and you will see what kind of legislation they have all pushed or passed…..all supposedly with “good intentions”, but all, while stealing taxpayer money, and freedom of choice, ultimately, bringing on bad results.
And furthermore, I don’t know what other rider’s reasons are for enjoying the things they do about their motorcycles….it is THEIR choice, as it should be.
Despite your constant…..and incorrect…..assumptions about ANYONE who enjoys the added power, and SOUND of after market exhaust pipes, I do not “play at look at me bad ass”…..THAT is YOUR constant, and feverish, assertion…..as if YOU know what others think and feel, and WHY they CHOOSE the choices they do…..and, at least as far as I am concerned, you are wrong. I couldn’t care less if you, or anyone else, sees or hears my motorcycle as I ENJOY it.
As far as your threat , “we will vote to shut you down”, you are staying in “good” form, for that is typically what liberals do. A small percentage of them get control of the vote, and FORCE their desires on all the rest of us….no matter what the percentages are on each side of the issue in question…..a good example is obama-care….the liberal/progressive/democrats passed that monstrosity even though polls showed 70 per cent of Americans DID NOT, and DO NOT, want the government running….and ruining….health care in this country….not to mention the jobs it will cost, the higher taxes it will create, and the loss of medical care and service it will bring….obama, and you liberals, “know what is best” for all the rest of us, right?
JEEZ…..DON’T YOU EVER STOP WHINING?
( That last question is in all capitals because, with all your “ear damage”, I just wanted to make sure you “heard” my question. )
roy · August 25, 2012 at 11:24 am
high?? at what point does annoyance move into ear damage …and why should i be subjected to hearing damange by SOMEONE ELSE ….so they can play at look at me bad ass ” we are free man ” and why should I care about your life if you do not care about my hearing …so we will vote to shut you down …
Dan · August 25, 2012 at 5:45 am
drdave, I don’t doubt that all your high viz gear helps make you safer….in fact I agree that that is ANOTHER effective element that can be used to help keep us all “safer”.
However, your starting premise is a bit faulty…..that being that sound, and visibility are “equally effective” in getting automobile drivers to be aware of motorcyclists.
“Sound”, as I am assuming you would agree, radiates around the “emitter” in a 360 degree circle (ignoring the vertical aspects of above and below the emitter, for our purposes of discussion ), and requires NO active participation from the “listener” to be effective …..”visibility”, even the “loudest” florescent colors, are only effective in a much, much more limited sector, as the “viewer” must have a direct, line of sight angle, for the colors to be effective, which requires the viewer to ACTIVELY look directly at the “high viz” object….and that direct angle is often interrupted by other traffic, parked cars, hedges, building, etc, especially for cars entering the roadway from a side street….or is someone wanting to argue that point as well?
As I have said from the beginning, there are certainly bikes “out there” with pipes that are obnoxiously loud, and certainly DO cause annoyance for people forced to hear them, even me….and I personally have no problem with there being an upper decibel limit on exhaust noise….but, I want it “pretty high”, and THAT is where the “slippery slope” of government interference begins…..once the “liberal” bureaucrats are allowed to start limiting individual citizens freedoms…..they NEVER stop!
Personally, I have no doubt that YOUR CHOICE of high visibility riding gear helps makes you safer on your rides…..every little bit helps, in my opinion.
However, since you categorically state that the high viz gear “works” for you, let me play “devil’s advocate” a bit, and say to you…..as the “loud pipes save lives” doubters constantly say to us…….”PROVE IT”.
Not so easy, is it?
Jay · August 24, 2012 at 8:23 am
Hey Scoot,
I just caught your comment…” I am Glad you kept your bike up.” When the deer departed my front end she took the front wheel immediately and abruptly left and the back wheel went around to my right and I was in for the 3-time spin and my reflective vest is torn up from it. I rode it like a trooper though. when the bike came to rest I turned off the engine kill switch. Then raised the bike put the kick stand down, turned the key off. then I checked the bike over. Nothing was hanging off or broken, just scrapped up a little. Then I turned the key on and checked the lights, I reset the engine kill switch and listened to the fuel pump come on. I started the bike and let it idle a while. I turned the bike around and headed home and said to myself” To heck with waisting a day off…I am already dressed and all that I am going to work.” So, I went to work! my jacket I found out later had some small tear on the left elbow. I have had worse falls on dirt bikes. No big deal.
02′ Victory Touring Cruiser’s Rule!
“DO NOT SPOOK ” the deer at 3:20 AM coming around the corner at 40MPH.
Ride Safe!
drdave · August 24, 2012 at 7:35 am
Even if being really loud is safer, if there’s an equally effective quieter choice, isn’t that better for motorcycling in general? You won’t get ticketed, people won’t hate riding next to you and hate all motorcyclists because of your pipes.
From MY own personal experience, people give me much more space and consideration when I am wearing my Hi-Viz/Reflector/Black Kevlar Hong-Kong cop jacket from Motoport and my retina-busting orange AGV helmet. No noise, just very high visibility. . . and it works.
Dan · August 24, 2012 at 5:26 am
There you go again, Lon…..you are now changing the question as it was originally asked, and trying to use MODERN progressive-liberal “logic” to reframe the debate.
Reread the ORIGINAL question…..it was not about loud horns, sonic booms, thunder claps, police and ambulance sirens, etc, etc, etc.
All the statements…..and rants…..made in this forum will not change anyone’s mind. One either KNOWS from experience that his louder-than-stock pipes helps make his rides safer….or he doesn’t have them, doesn’t like them, and doesn’t KNOW anything….from actual riding experiences…..about whether or not they make one safer or not…..he simply doesn’t enjoy the rumble, doesn’t want anyone else to be allowed to enjoy it, then stubbornly argues that it simply can not make any difference in rider safety, so OUTLAW them….kind of like the gun control argument, i.e. “I’m scared of them, I don’t like them, therefore NO ONE should be allowed to have them”……hmmmm, sounds like modern progressive-liberal logic to me.
Also, seemly lost in this whole argument is the real reason that “loud pipes” exist at all….and that is the undeniable, easily provable FACT that reducing the back pressure for a freer flowing exhaust stream, combined with correct tuning….as is now done with modern ECM computer inputs, and after market add on, or interchangeable, automatic tuners, such as the “Power Commander”, “Thundermax”, etc, produce increases in horsepower, torque, and lower elapsed times in acceleration tests…..shown in dyno tests, and the “seat of the pants” feeling that needs no further proof than the exhilaration of the rider, as he cracks open the throttle.
While it is very true that modern motorcycle makers do a very good job of matching exhausts, tuning, and other aspects of engine building, to produce some excellent machinery, even with the ever increasing, even smothering, EPA restrictions….especially under the present socialist “we know better than you do” regime, even those very technically advanced bikes….such as the high powered, and very fast sports bikes….could be made to run even better if the owner chose ….while he still as that freedom….to make some modifications.
One of my bikes is a 2003 Harley Night Train. It has “after market”, Screamin’ Eagle slip on mufflers, and is louder than the stock, highly restricted by EPA bureaucrats, mufflers full of exhaust flow restricting, and therefore noise reducing, baffles. They, and the sound they produce, are legal…at least right now, but who can say after November IF there is no change in the repressive, downward slide, toward total citizen control we are currently experiencing…..internal combustion engines just may be outlawed in favor of the “dream machines”, such as the laughable Chevy Volt.
I do a lot of semi-country, two lane riding, and one of my favorite routes takes me along the shores of Lake St. Clair, past a wetlands area known as St. John’s Marsh. As I rumble along at about 50-55….okay, 60 mph, I routine see the creatures that inhabit this wonderful area, such as Canadian geese, swans, Blue Herons, cranes, ‘possums, raccoons, and even White Tail dear, as they feed, and drink, near the road’s edge. They always look up as I pass, but I have yet to see one flee from my “excessive noise”…..and I am able to enjoy their presence from first sight until after passing them, as I glance into my rear view mirrors.
While I have agreed from the beginning, that there ARE bikes with exhaust pipes that even I think are just too loud, I will freely, though reluctantly, accept them, as they are in a small minority of all “loud pipes”….if it means that I….as an American…..can still enjoy one of the diminishing freedoms of choice that I still have remaining.
So, Lon, keep to the question as asked…..only a modern-day progressive-liberal tries to twist and spin the terms….i.e. “It depends what “IS” is”…..to try and put their particular argument in a better light.
“2016”…..see it.
Lon · August 23, 2012 at 6:27 am
Again, folks are comparing apples to oranges and trying to make OJ with apples.
If the question were “do loud noises save lives?”, there would be no argument. Of course they do.
The next question could be, “what kind of noises can we make to save lives?”.
We could then make a list.
On that list we could include raps from loud pipes and blasts from loud horns.
If your horn merely “toots”, then or course it cannot be compared to the rapping of loud pipes. But a horn that BLASTS can. Unfortunately, I guess, there are more profits to be made by building pipes that rap loudly than there are by designing and building bike horns that can blast pedestrians 10m down the sidewalk.
Again, I am not against loud pipes or the self-expression which their use embodies. I am just against the dishonest parameters that MCg used to frame the “debate”. But in fairness to him, he is not doing it to enlighten anyone. In the end, he is selling advertising and, in the process, is successfully delivering web-site “hits” for his clients.
Attila · August 23, 2012 at 12:40 am
I live in a country where motorcycling is still viewed as a fringe hobby, sport, pasttime, you give it a name 🙂
Because of this, there is little respect for us, from car drivers, pedestrians and so on. In such an enviroment, loud pipes do save lives and have done so for me, more than once.
Yes, I know, riding a loud bike in a city can be a bit annoying. But I prefer being loud and disturbing than hurt. When I see a car that wants to turn into my lane without signalling or giving right of way, I just pull the clutch and rev it a bit. Just to get their attention. It works a hell of a lot better than flashing him or tooting my horn 🙂
The same goes with pedestrians. As people are not quite used to motorcycles, most think that they’ll be able to cross way before I get there – which is suicidal and just plain wrong. So again, I just rev it – you should see them step back on the sidewalk and sometimes even go an extra 10 meters to the nearest crossing.
As a personal statistic:
Loud pipe motorcycle: 0 traffic accidents (slipping on wet road due to my own stupidity does not count 😛 )
Stock, silent Honda: 2 (both being results of cars not giving right of way – you know, the “I did not see you” syndrome)
Well, they may not see me, but at least they damn well hear me.
Jay · August 22, 2012 at 11:01 am
Stage one Kit on a 2002 Victory Turing Cruiser with LARGE turn outs, Like a Peterbilt only on a bike. Nice low drone until you wack the throttle. Then SEE-YA!, It works every time it is tried. The larger the pipe the lower the drone sound, and Victory’s do NOT sound like Harley’s at all. So, Loud Pipes do attract attention and do save lives,
I love the comments they are getting quite creative. Have a great day! Ride safe!
Honda · August 22, 2012 at 7:09 am
Lon,
For me, exhaust sound pressure level is primarily a mater of taste, except… Motorcycle manufacturers do a fine job of matching exhaust back pressure to valve timing, and the intended purpose of the machine. Some bikers fit extreme noise makers startling fellow traffickers, and as previously stated, diminish the general opinion of motorcycles and their riders. Couldn’t be happier with my stock four-into-four exhaust system provided on my 90 degree V-4 Honda Magna.
Scoot · August 15, 2012 at 5:27 pm
Hey Lon, still got plenty in the freezer. None were taken on wheels , thankfully.
“Din”, guilty as charged. Love the sound of a cam’d up 2 cyl with some long pipes at about 1200rpm in road gear rumbling along.
Remember sitting in a deerstand one morning just at sunup. Off in the distance: beep…. beep….. beep……getting louder, ..passing by out on the road, …..going away. Don’t know how many they had hit before or if their plan was working. Sure glad it wasn’t an air horn.
Scoot · August 15, 2012 at 5:13 pm
Hey jay, got a brother had a deer jump on him . 2 pm on a sunny afternoon. On a charity ride! Ended up in the ditch but kept it up. Guess nobody on that ride had them loud pipes.
Lon · August 14, 2012 at 5:55 am
Scoot, glad you don’t have any venison in your freezer.
Even the always against-everything crowd will agree that a loud noise will alert deer, other drivers etc., and may therefore save lives.
So, wouldn’t a couple of loud blasts on an air horn have had the same effect as a couple straight pipe raps? If so, then it’s not about safety, it’s about your enjoyment of a loud din -vs- everyone else being subjected to it.
I don’t know where to draw the line between individual rights and group rights, but let’s at least be honest in forming the question. It’s just about where to draw that line, not about life-saving.
Since equal life-saving via loud noise can be achieved for the individual without bothering others, life saving can’t be part of the debate.
drdave · August 8, 2012 at 7:36 pm
Pipes so loud you can hear them in a Lexus with the stereo going are way too loud for the road and give motorcyclists a bad name. You can knock Hi Viz, daytime running lights, reflectors, white helmet, etc., but even deaf drivers will see you. If the other driver is drunk or impaired, you could stick your loud pipes in his ear and it wouldn’t make any difference, so why not go Visible but more quietly. Keep the loud horn, but damp the dbs. . .
Jay · August 8, 2012 at 6:33 am
Hey Scoot, DO NOT SPOOK THEM, Stop safely and let them scatter then ride. I hit one at 40 MPH, and it was NOT fun! It was hiding behind a tall hedge and jumped out. All I saw was ears and a snout. And she bailed off my front end and I spun around three times hanging on. When the bike came to rest I lifted it up and put down the kick stand, I checked it over and rode to work that morning. 2002 Victory Touring Cruisers rule! Be Careful!
Have a great day!
Scoot · August 8, 2012 at 6:18 am
Worked for me on my v twin again last evening.
The 2 deer that were entering the roadway turned
and ran back into the woods, when I gave them a couple
straight pipe raps.
roy · July 30, 2012 at 7:14 am
ok its in NO pipes one facing foward one to the rear, dayglow rubber air suits and paint bikes same but pink,green,yellow for color blind drivers ,,, fly flags, and have fire works ready to go and sparklers burning all the time , air horns on the helmet tops …flashing head lights ,no dam it …outline the bike strung with flashing lights…speakers screaming get out of the way do not hit me .baby on boad stickers .crash bumpers out from the frame or all around..with a roll bar…. training wheels so you can not fall over [say 6 in off the ground on the side bars ]…..ok works for me ..
Jay · July 30, 2012 at 4:43 am
So, We have to look like “GLOW-BUGS” and QUIET,
I can see wearing a reflective vest. I have to wear long sleeves and a reflective vest and a helmet and hard sole covering the ankle boots to ride in a DOD installation. and Motorcyclist get run over ON THE BASE! it does not work! Loud Pipes are a good DEFENSE. The bike that got hit on the base was a 1500 Goldwing with stock pipes!
He thank God did not get torn up but his bike sure did and he did the hussle with the insurance company to get his bike fixed.
So Dan, what is up with the LOUD pipes! LOUD PIPES do save lives! Yes, I do get those people who try to cut me off and are rude just like with cars.
MOST CARS AND TRUCKS DO NOT LOOK TWICE FOR MOTORCYCLES but if they HEAR THEM! It is a plus for the motorcycle rider. LOUD HORNS WORK TOO! The Bad-Boy version with a relay incorporated and a switch to be able to switch it from a stock horn to the Bad-Boy is a great feature.
The Bad-Boy Horn is for the ones that drift into your lane while using their cell phones etc… and people like that.
I really hate my day to be ruined be idiot drivers!
I had to call FHP on one with ‘obama stickers” on it last week that was driving like an idiot! tag number “FOR DEMS” DROVE INTO MY LANE, NO TURN SIGNAL AND RAN ME OFF THE ROAD. I slowed to 20 MPH and BLEW the HORN real LOUD.
Idiots!
drdave · July 29, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Dan is answering the question about loud pipes. . in the other direction. . .as cars get more insulated, and stereos louder; you can run your pipes open at 120db and they won’t hear it. So what’s the research say? White Helmet; Hi Viz day-glo clothing; full-time front running light. Those three things will reduce your risk of not being seen by something like 75 percent or more. It really is better to be “seen and not heard. . .”
Dan · July 29, 2012 at 5:49 am
Well Vaughn, you either believe it or you don’t,, but, for riders like you, your dad, me…and thousands of others….who see examples that it DOES make a difference every time we ride, there simply is no doubt in OUR minds that it has, and does, make us a bit “safer”.
On a more humorous note, I had an incident occur Wednesday, on a county road near Romeo, Michigan. A large woodchuck was running through the low grass, off to my right at a 90 degree angle to my direction of travel. It appeared that, with his angle of intercept, and “speed” he would be crossing the pavement at about the exact time I would be there. I “blipped” my Night Train’s throttle….he stopped immediately and stood up on his hind legs and LOOKED right at me, about ten feet short of the pavement….
Did it “save” my life…doubtful….did it “save” his life…quite possibly….who knows, but it clearly proved to me…once again…that the sound of my pipes IS heard FORWARD of my direction of travel, despite what some claim as not occurring, due to the “Doppler Effect”.
And, as he stood there and watched me “rumble” by, I think I heard a squeaky “sweet pipes, thanks pal”……LOL
Vaughan · July 28, 2012 at 9:55 am
I use to ride stock standard pipes on my CBR600f (first 600 I owned) and didn’t see a point to a point other than making it sound a bit better. Now in the years I had this motorbike I noticed one thing that happened a LOT. I got cut off by people bluntly not looking.
Now no matter what your opinion is on this (the driver should get more education blah blah blah) in the mean time the motorbike comes out the worst, there is just no point in arguing there if a car and motorbike collide bike comes out the worst.
Simple fact of the matter after a girl turned in front of me cause she couldn’t see me and didn’t bother waiting as she “thought” nothing was coming (didn’t hear me either) I slammed into the passenger side door (T boned her) she was at fault.
Who was lying on the floor in pain and had to get carted away in an ambulance? Me. Who walked away without a scratch? Her (aka the car) like always.
If we have a method of protecting ourselves and it has been seen to work (not just with myself, my father has noticed this also and has ridden bikes all his life, and no not choppers etc,) and have been saved by this case you would defend it till death do you part.
It is EXACTLY like the philosophy (and more fact) that unless you ride you don’t know or notice things to watch out for when you drive a car (like other riders as much) same goes with this fact if you have no have the instance which I had above happen to you its EASY to say, no there is no proof of this and it should be whisper quiet, YOU ARE and I can speak from experience putting a MUCH bigger risk than is needed (or wanted) to motorbike riders, end of story.
I should also point out that after that people STILL do not look even though I had a modified pipe on my newer bike (like people ALMOST merging into me and seeing me at last second) happend a LOT less cause the closer they got the more they heard me. But I strongly believe this is due to the fact that
A) Cars are getting more and more well insulated (because everyone wants less noise) and can hear less noise outside
And B ) To a lesser extent inside car noise, music up too loud, other distractions, people talking on their phones and another one which I see lately is people using headphones as music players, which bloke out pretty much ALL noise being heard from anything but the headphones
But again what options do we have? We have ONE and that is to have GOOD skills and to be HEARD so people LOOK when they FORGET and or CANT (ie blind spots, obstructed by other traffic etc) these are the only two things a motorbike can count on.
Dan · July 10, 2012 at 7:12 am
LOL….Lon, while your are very correct in that I AM a “classic liberal” in my general outlook on life, …and MY views of “right and wrong” have changed hardly at all my entire life….still, I DO get a bit nervous (maybe nauseous is a better word) any time my name, and the word “liberal” are used in the same sentience.
I am a “classic liberal” in the sense that John and Robert Kennedy were classic liberals….did you know that JFK had a LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP in the NRA?….how about that both he, and his brother Robert were defenders of Senator Joe McCarthy’s work, and called him “an American hero”, or that Robert Kennedy named McCarthy “Godfather” to his oldest daughter, Kathleen?…..you’d never know that listening to the modern day liberal media, and behavior like that would surely get both of them kicked out of “the party”…..by the way, for the doubters, Senator Joe McCarthy was proven correct in his claims with the demise of the USSR, and the release of secret files, known as the “Venona Files”, by the KGB, which named the highly placed Alger Hiss as a communist spy, and other members of the liberal, democrat administration of FDR…..Joe was right!
drdave….139 decibels!…..ARRRR!….ARRRR!….ARRR!…..more noise!….I want one! LOL
Christine….it’s YOUR bike….”ride it like you stole it!”, and enjoy yourself….Riding to please other’s sensibilities it’s like living to be 100 years old, but having to eat rice cakes, and drink distilled water to do it…..no red meat, no eggs, no butter, no smoking, no drinking, no womanizing…OOPS! sorry! LOL, but you get my point….if all those “safe” boring things are required…what’s the point?
HAVE FUN!!
Lon · July 9, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Christine, you didn’t read what I wrote, or chose not to understand what you read.
So as not to outrun Napoleon on the lead bike, the others had to accelerate moderately. Napoleon was revving repeatedly in between gears with the clutch held in. He wasn’t getting a rush from accelerating or from the sound of an engine, under full load winding up to its red line. That’s the rush you and I both like if I read your post correctly. Napoleon was getting his rush solely from making a lot of noise while taking his time leaving.
Now, in fairness, maybe he was having trouble with a slipping clutch. But that wouldn’t explain why he was doing it while waiting for the light to change.
Again, to be fair, maybe his bike was so badly tuned that this was the only way he could keep it from stalling. If so, and if I were a cop, I’d still cite him up and down and, as a bonus for abusing a lovely machine, I’d have the rig towed to a shop for him. And I’d thank the other guys for the patience they showed to their ailing friend.
No need for their enjoyment to suffer because their friend is an idiot – and certainly no need for law and regs requiring us to hire squads of noise-meter-equipped sound-police to hassle each and every biker.
roy · July 9, 2012 at 7:23 pm
christine no rev it in every gear ..enjoy the sound, the wear and tear, the heat , the repair bill… its yours to destroy … freedom to wreck it …no one should take that away from you..go for it girl…
drdave · July 9, 2012 at 7:01 pm
Just put a 139db Stebel Nautilus horn on my Beemer. Now my quiet, sedate 1200r has a warning like a 6 ton Peterbilt stuffed in your ear. Best of both worlds, really, quiet on the highway with a time-to-replace-your-Depends shout. . . .
Christine · July 9, 2012 at 6:07 pm
oops! I do that Lon…rev the bike until I just HAVE to gear up cuz I love the rush and the sound of my Harley engine!~! Well, I won’t do that ANY more! It must be a rookie thing. LOL. Now, thanks to your comment, I will accelerate ‘moderately and smoothly’. Thank you!
Lon · July 9, 2012 at 11:40 am
Well, as I have already established, Dan and I are Liberals (in the classic meaning of the word) and, as such appreciate our freedom to make our own choices. Speaking for myself, I am glad that I now am able to choose not to breath second-hand smoke. All I have to do is avoid the outside of restaurants. I am glad that smokers can indulge their choice to remain smokers and, that there are plenty of public spaces for them to do so which I can avoid or stay up-wind of. Being a serious health issue, I am willing to see a smoker’s total freedom limited – but just enough to give ME the choice and the opportunity to avoid it.
Motorcycle pipe noise is not a carcinogen or a serious health issue, therefore, the threshold for limitation should be much more forgiving. Most places have disturbing the peace ordinances and leave it up to police officers to nail people who they find to be “yelling fire in crowed theater”.
That’s enough for me. I saw a group of bikes leave a traffic light the other day. The loudest bike had an impotent moron with a Napoleon complex driving it. How do I know this? Prior to taking off and in between each gear he revved the bike to the red-line repeatedly before engaging the clutch – “look at me, look at me!”. Sad, pathetic case really. The other loud bikes simply accelerated moderately and smoothly.
If I’d been a cop, I would have cited the one guy up and down within an inch of his life. But, I would have wished the rest of the riders a nice day and a safe ride. That’s where the difference lies and that’s where the line should be – as drawn by me and DAN according to the best of American “Classical Liberal” principles and traditions.
roy · July 9, 2012 at 7:27 am
oh dan dan .. playing cards in cycle spokes never sounds like a off beat h.d. the spokes are equal ..it sounds like a good bsa single gold star [ red cards ] and for a norton manx 500 cc you use the [ black ] ones. equal spokes same noise , you would have to cut out every 3rd spoke to sound like a h.d. beat….thawck -thawck – – thawak thwack- -… every school kid in the 50’s knew that….[ wonder if cards saved lives ] … so not wanting the wheels to fall apart … jr, h.d. riders would put blown [air ] baloons to the frame and they would rub on the spokes giving a deeper tone and bounce .. thus giving the skip sound .. extra bennie was when they would blow out , it sounded like a h.d. back fire or rear cylinder seizing up ..